Foreclosure Prep - Help Needed with Liens Due Diligence Review

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Foreclosure Prep - Help Needed with Liens Due Diligence Review

Boris Shakhmurov
Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 4 votes

Good Morning all,

I am completing due diligence review as a prep for Foreclosure Auction and was hoping to get some assistance from the BP team/members.  I was able to find information online for the following:

1. Licenses and Inspections (L&I) Liens - https://atlas.phila.gov

2. Real Estate Tax Liens - http://www.phila.gov/revenue/realestatetax/

3. PGW (Gas) Liens - courts.phila.gov

While i understand the importance of running a title search, that could be a very expensive process for 30+ properties and i am trying to complete as much basic due diligence as possible before narrowing down on those properties that absolutely require a title search.  Appreciate any guidance you can provide:

A. How do i look up all the Mortgage Lien balances (1st mortgage, 2nd, etc) associated with the Philly properties?  I was able to find the records but not the remaining amount (epay.phila-records.com/phillyepay/eagleweb)

B. Which Type of Liens will be removed after property goes through Philly Foreclosure Auction?

C. Which Type of Liens will remain after property goes through Philly Foreclosure Auction?  

D. Where can i find Water and Sewer Lien information, specifically the amount owed against the Philly Property?

E. Where can i find Utility and Mechanics Lien information, specifically the amount owed against the Philly Property?

Thanks in advance!!!!

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Most Popular Reply

Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
8y
Loan balances aren’t publicly available anywhere, you can sort of guess with an amortization schedule but you don’t know if/how far behind in default they may be.
2Reply
See this reply in the discussion

13 Replies

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  • Angie Williams
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bronx, NY · Member since 2016 · 168 posts · 168 votes
    8y
    Your in over your head with that many properties, I have been to numerous Philly auctions and there is a sea of people who will just outbid you to the point it’s not even a deal. 30 properties is not feasible and chances are half of them won’t even be auctioned that day. Narrow down your list to 10 most 15 and that still being a lot. Also, always go to an auction with no intent to buy so you can see what it’s like. It’s cut throat at the Philly ones. Then you can move on from there. Just my advice. Believe me I learned the hard way!!!
    1Reply
  • Angie Williams
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bronx, NY · Member since 2016 · 168 posts · 168 votes
    8y
    Although I’d admire your due diligence, and your passion and go getter attitude. But be careful of over indulging that’s when you make rash decisions at an auction you may regret in the end. Again, stay low in numbers and observe.
    1Reply
  • Wayne Brooks
    Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y
    Loan balances aren’t publicly available anywhere, you can sort of guess with an amortization schedule but you don’t know if/how far behind in default they may be.
    2Reply
  • Boris Shakhmurov
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    8y

    Thanks.   It's an experience, that's for sure.  What about B and C above? 

    0Reply
  • Angie Williams
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bronx, NY · Member since 2016 · 168 posts · 168 votes
    8y
    For me Non, I had to take care of the liens on the homes I purchased.
    0Reply
  • Chris K.
    Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Boris Shakhmurov

    A. Many "foreclosure mill" firms in Pennsylvania post a lot of the information directly on their website so they don't have to bother answering questions from interested buyers. I would start at the listed upset price to weed out properties that make no economic sense and go from there. 

    B. As a general rule, all "junior" liens get removed at the sheriff's sale. Unfortunately, this gets very complicated and it really is not possible to give a summary of this here. There are literally books written on this exact topic. Probably the biggest mistake that I see many attorneys/investors make are dealing with IRS liens. You have to do it in a very specific way and sometimes attorneys drop the ball on this.

    C. Same as "B". 

    D. Can't remember if they take this amount out from the foreclosure sale amount in Philly. I believe they do so it's kind of moot. Find the upset price first.  

    E. Most liens are found in the recorder of deeds but not always. For example, some liens are found in the prothonotary. Again, a bit too complicated to discuss here in great detail. 

    Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

    1Reply
  • Boris Shakhmurov
    OP
    Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    8y
    Chris,

    This was very helpful.  I will be getting a book to learn more about this.  I also attended the auction today and still have a few properties to review and bid on ... alternatively, checking gutted houses as well for Cash deals.  Thanks Again!!!

    Originally posted by @Chris K.:

    @Boris Shakhmurov

    A. Many "foreclosure mill" firms in Pennsylvania post a lot of the information directly on their website so they don't have to bother answering questions from interested buyers. I would start at the listed upset price to weed out properties that make no economic sense and go from there. 

    B. As a general rule, all "junior" liens get removed at the sheriff's sale. Unfortunately, this gets very complicated and it really is not possible to give a summary of this here. There are literally books written on this exact topic. Probably the biggest mistake that I see many attorneys/investors make are dealing with IRS liens. You have to do it in a very specific way and sometimes attorneys drop the ball on this.

    C. Same as "B". 

    D. Can't remember if they take this amount out from the foreclosure sale amount in Philly. I believe they do so it's kind of moot. Find the upset price first.  

    E. Most liens are found in the recorder of deeds but not always. For example, some liens are found in the prothonotary. Again, a bit too complicated to discuss here in great detail. 

    Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.

    0Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    8y

    @Chris K. - methinks you forgot that Philadelphia uses sheriff sales to also deal with delinquent property taxes ... so no foreclosure mill for those ...

    2Reply
  • Chris K.
    Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Steve Babiak

    That too!

    0Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    8y

    Also, instead of Prothonotary, Philadelphia has the "Office of Judicial Records".

    0Reply
  • Angie Williams
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bronx, NY · Member since 2016 · 168 posts · 168 votes
    8y
    Chris K. I used only sheriff auctions and one of my properties came with a lien.
    0Reply
  • Boyd McClean
    Investor · Adkins, TX · Member since 2012 · 193 posts · 93 votes
    8y

    Check your recorder of deeds site for info on properties.

    Also, verify proper notice was given to lien holders

    other than 1st. if there are any if, not the sale can be declared void

    by other lien holders if they can prove they were not notified

    of the sale.

    Set a max dollar amount on each bid and stick by it. Don't allow

    emotions to dictate pricing. #Angie is right 30 is too many.

    Look at other areas rather than auctions. Too much competition.

    Get a list from the city or county of housing court violations and you

    will find highly motivated owners. You can get OWC very easily. No need

    for bank financing. Also, eviction court records will also give you highly

    motivated sellers.

    0Reply
  • Angie Williams
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bronx, NY · Member since 2016 · 168 posts · 168 votes
    8y
    Boyd McClean GREAT advice and you opened my eyes to a lot more outlets. Thanks for the feedback!
    0Reply
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