Is Cleveland as good as it seems?

[Chase Webster]

I've been receiving emails from Holton-Wise for the past few weeks, and it seems like there are some pretty good deals that may cash flow around 2-300 bucks per month with decent cap rates (10-12%). Couple questions though.

1) I am seeing properties that cost around $60K that will produce gross rental income of $1-1.4K per month. Is this realistic or are these inflated rents? Would this indicate a property needing a lot of rehab or cap ex? Generally, are these prices/rents in decent neighborhoods?

2) Is Holton-Wise actually a decent property management company or not? I looked at their BBB rating and it is not great. Are they just a turn-key scam company? If not, I see they will do some rehab. Does anyone know how this works? Would they be a good option for an out of town investor? Do you know what percentage they charge? Any other property management companies you would recommend? Same questions as above for other companies. I am looking to build a team in Cleveland (I'm out of town).

3) What is the biggest pitfall in Cleveland? 

4) What areas should I avoid?

5) Are there any specific locations I should look in? Great streets / neighborhoods?

I appreciate the help? Hopefully I'll be able to network with some of you moving forward.

[Johnathan Norman]

I can give you my impressions. I flew out to Cleveland to check the area out, meet various realtors, property managers, etc.. this included Holton-Wise. 

I just closed on a small apartment complex with them and they are managing the property. So I can't speak to the quality of property management yet. 

In general Cleveland is seeing a lot of outside investment. Money is flooding in and it is changing the town quite a bit. In my meetings with residents most were optimistic about things and felt good about their jobs etc. This seems to be supported by data i was able to gather from various sources on unemployment, job growth, etc..  BUT incomes in the area are quite low compared to other cities in the US and the city feels like it is finding a new identity.  The city is separated  by east/west with West is often considered safer and a better investment. People often don't cross from one side to the other from what I'm told. I however drove around and felt fine.  

As an investor I think you have to look at the job growth and how sustainable those jobs will be. Will the jobs created today be there in 10 years and how will the pay change? The biggest employers are hospitals, universities and some financial services companies i think.

As for Holton-Wise... they are very aggressive so I can understand why you might have the "scam" concern.They have only been around for 2 years or so. Most of the team seems quite young and hungry. This shows because you see their signs all around town. I had a brief meeting with James Wise and he certainly was not lacking in confidence and clearly knows how to sell. My agent (Anthony Aviles) was a bit more measured and was very thoughtful. He was responsive but not pushy and gave me good feedback throughout the process.  I'll likely use him again to purchase another complex after i stabilize my recent purchase. It was a smooth transaction etc... If i was to sell anything , like ice to a Eskimo.. or a property, I'd probably run to James :) 

I would suggest that if you're serious about investing in the area you get out there and shake some hands. Talk to the people who live there and get to know the area a bit before investing. This is also helpful because if you do have a problem with a management company like HW you can have a backup ready to take over. I certainly do :)   I'll try to remember to post a review of their management service 6 months from now

Every prop management company i spoke with charges roughly 10% of gross rents for apartments. 

If you want some other options I'd talk to Adam at Lokal if you are doing single family.