Getting Started with JV

Getting Started with JV

Dunkirk, MD · Member since 2012 · 26 posts · 2 votes

First, thank you all for your generous contributions to the forum. The BP community is so welcoming to new investors.

I have a few questions that I'm hoping can help myself and others just getting started:

1. I've heard learn by doing is the best way to get going in the note space. The lower priced NPNs look like low hanging fruit but is that where a newbie should start? I realize foreclosure/servicing costs/etc. come into play but was curious if anyone has thoughts or would share a note evaluation sheet they use?

2. JV structure? For those of you who have done a JV. What does that look like? I'm sure it can be as varied as the notes we are dealing in but wasn't sure if there was a norm? Do we split the purchase price? Who pays for what? Personally, I see this as a great opportunity to gain some experience by doing while having some guidance from a seasoned note investor.

3. SDIRA funds have their limits. What would a minimum amount be needed to get started with reasonable confidence that expenses beyond purchase price won't exhaust the account. For example, if one has $50K in an SDIRA that can be entirely invested in notes. What should a max purchase look like? $30K note + expenses + reserve? Surely this differs NPN vs PN. But by how much?

Thank you again and I look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

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Specialist · Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 117 posts · 89 votes
9y

@Dan Golden @Linda Hastings It wasn't long ago (5 years ago) that my partner and I bought our first note. We came from a wholesale background and progressed into fix and flips. One day one of the REO agents that we work with called and asked if we wanted to buy a note. We purchased a frame duplex in Winter Garden, FL with a UPB of 100,000.00 for $8400.00. The asset was worth around 50,000 fixed up. We purchased 3 or for more NPNs and exited all of them over the next 6 months. We took our spreadsheet that showed our results and went to show a family friend with hopes that he would give us some money to invest with.

We struck it big and he offered us a million dollars to work with, and we were off to the races. We structured everything in an LLC with an operating agreement and agreed to do the grunt work and split the profits.

Fast forward to today, we manage around 5 million in capital and we are in the process of our first Reg A+ tier 2 offering. Our plan is to raise $50 million with a focus of saving the homes of willing borrowers. 

Along the way, we educated ourselves and took on a mentor via Eddie Speed and the Note School group.  This was an invaluable experience and a key ingredient to fast tracking our success.  I would encourage you to get some education, whether it's Eddie Speed, Scott Carson, Dave Van Horn, Note Force Academy, Google University or any other company.  I would recommend checking out the Bob Malecki podcast on BP and also the Note MBA podcast on your mobile device (apple and android).  Most all of the education listed above will provide you with the basics to evaluating a note. 

I believe that starting out, $50,000 is the minimum that i would want to have to begin investing in notes. 

The note space is a fantastic place to invest your money that will provide you with hearty financial gains along with the opportunity to do something socially responsible and save some houses.  At the end of the day its all about Connecting Money with Meaning

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  • Linda HastingsPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Stockdale, TX · Member since 2017 · 285 posts · 202 votes
    9y

    I'm new to notes, too, so to avoid "the blind leading the blind," I'll leave #1 & 3 to more experienced note investors. 

    Regarding #2, you are correct that there are all sorts of JV agreements/structures that you could come up with, but one that I've seen is where the experienced investor finds, vets, and manages the deal and you put up the money for acquisition and expenses. Any profit is split 50/50. You can choose to be more involved in the process and learn along the way or just be a passive money partner.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y

    1. Assuming you are talking about 1st position NPN, there are a lot of factors that play into the low priced NPN's. If its a $10,000 note on a $25,000 property I would not touch that note, as if they stopped paying and you had to foreclose and take the property, more than likely to get it to a position to sell or rent will be more than what the property is worth. If the property value was $100,000 and you had never bought a note before and the UPB was $10,000. That would be a different story. Your upside is extremely limited, BUT you would learn a lot of the details that you do not learn until you actually buy a note. This is what I did for my first note and now I have jumped up into the meat and potato size notes that many gurus tell you are the sweet spot.

    2. Investor provides all the funding and the split is 50/50 is the standard. 

    3. Depends on the state and ancillary costs. What are the property taxes, what is the foreclosure length of time. Texas vs. New York would be two end of the extremes as Texas foreclosure timeframe is quick and NY is long and costly. To be cautious, I would say $30-35k as after one year you can put in another $5500 into the IRA if the process continues.

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  • Dunkirk, MD · Member since 2012 · 26 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    Thank you both for the feedback.

    @Linda Hastings have you done a JV? if so, would you mind sharing.. even via PM.. how it went?

    @Chris Seveney what $ amount is the meat and potato sweet spot? After your first deal have you stuck with 1st position NPN?

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y

    @Dan Golden

    I have stuck with 1st position NPN's. I was thinking about 2nd's but did not want to go down that road as like to stay narrow and focused and there is a lot of inventory out there.

    I consider sweet spot being properties valued at $50-$100k (could go to $150k).  NOTE: This is my sweet spot, there are many opinions out there and every investor is different, no different than someone who does buy and hold vs fix and flips etc. You find a spot where you are comfortable and understand and can make money - thats what I mean by the sweet spot. 

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  • Dunkirk, MD · Member since 2012 · 26 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Chris Seveney

    Thanks for the input. I'm in Southern Maryland, not too far from you in Annandale. I'd love to meet up sometime to talk shop. I'll buy the coffee.

  • Linda HastingsPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Stockdale, TX · Member since 2017 · 285 posts · 202 votes
    9y

    @Dan Golden I haven't done a JV yet, but am in the process of evaluating one. I'll let know know how it goes.

  • Investor · Kingston, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Hi Dan, I've done some JVs and will send you a link to my website that shows some case histories. @Chris Seveney makes an excellent point about the cost of the project vs. the value of the underlying asset. 

    Bob

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    I don't invest in notes, but I'd like to get these abbreviations in our directory. I know NPN is Non Performing Note, but what does UPB mean? @Chris Seveney

  • Linda HastingsPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Stockdale, TX · Member since 2017 · 285 posts · 202 votes
    9y

    @Mindy Jensen

    Unpaid Principal Balance

  • Specialist · Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 117 posts · 89 votes
    9y

    @Dan Golden @Linda Hastings It wasn't long ago (5 years ago) that my partner and I bought our first note. We came from a wholesale background and progressed into fix and flips. One day one of the REO agents that we work with called and asked if we wanted to buy a note. We purchased a frame duplex in Winter Garden, FL with a UPB of 100,000.00 for $8400.00. The asset was worth around 50,000 fixed up. We purchased 3 or for more NPNs and exited all of them over the next 6 months. We took our spreadsheet that showed our results and went to show a family friend with hopes that he would give us some money to invest with.

    We struck it big and he offered us a million dollars to work with, and we were off to the races. We structured everything in an LLC with an operating agreement and agreed to do the grunt work and split the profits.

    Fast forward to today, we manage around 5 million in capital and we are in the process of our first Reg A+ tier 2 offering. Our plan is to raise $50 million with a focus of saving the homes of willing borrowers. 

    Along the way, we educated ourselves and took on a mentor via Eddie Speed and the Note School group.  This was an invaluable experience and a key ingredient to fast tracking our success.  I would encourage you to get some education, whether it's Eddie Speed, Scott Carson, Dave Van Horn, Note Force Academy, Google University or any other company.  I would recommend checking out the Bob Malecki podcast on BP and also the Note MBA podcast on your mobile device (apple and android).  Most all of the education listed above will provide you with the basics to evaluating a note. 

    I believe that starting out, $50,000 is the minimum that i would want to have to begin investing in notes. 

    The note space is a fantastic place to invest your money that will provide you with hearty financial gains along with the opportunity to do something socially responsible and save some houses.  At the end of the day its all about Connecting Money with Meaning

  • Real Estate Investor · Plano, TX · Member since 2014 · 38 posts · 21 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by :

      I would recommend checking out the Bob Malecki podcast on BP and also the Note MBA podcast on your mobile device (apple and android).  Most all of the education listed above will provide you with the basics to evaluating a note. 

    I believe that starting out, $50,000 is the minimum that i would want to have to begin investing in notes. 

    The note space is a fantastic place to invest your money that will provide you with hearty financial gains along with the opportunity to do something socially responsible and save some houses.  At the end of the day its all about Connecting Money with Meaning

    Thanks for the shout out Richard! @Bob Malecki did a great job on our podcast as well. Dude really knows his stuff. ;)

    I agree with you on the $50k starting point with capital. You'll want at least that, and you wouldn't want the asset to be more than $40k all in acquisition cost. You'll need funds for servicing, potential attorney fees, etc. Especially if this is your first deal of the kind.

  • Investor · Kingston, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Thanks for the endorsement @Chase Thompson, my street cred just went up another 20%! Are you and Robbie attending the Papersource conference next month?

    Bob

  • Real Estate Investor · Plano, TX · Member since 2014 · 38 posts · 21 votes
    9y

    No question, @Bob Malecki. :)

    And yes, we'll be at PaperSource. We haven't gotten Bill to give us a spot on stage yet, but we'll wear him down. Ha!

  • Dunkirk, MD · Member since 2012 · 26 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Richard Allen Thank you for the back story. It is both motivating and exciting to hear how people got started. I understand often the hardest is the first note so I'm looking forward to that jump soon.

    @Chase Thompson I'm plowing through the podcasts, great stuff.. I'm on 13 now, I have a bit more to go! Is the $50K number you and Richard mentioned for a single note? Could we jump in the swimming pool with less cash and simply go after a lower $ amount note? Would you guys advise against that?

  • Investor · Kingston, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    you are going to put in just about the same amount of work and risk into a lower-priced asset then you will into a higher-priced asset so why go low with as much risk and work?

  • Real Estate Investor · Amherst, VA · Member since 2015 · 386 posts · 400 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Dan Golden:

    Is the $50K number you and Richard mentioned for a single note? Could we jump in the swimming pool with less cash and simply go after a lower $ amount note? Would you guys advise against that?

     Depends what your strategy is. I started with less than 50k by buying 2nd mortgages and spreading it over a handful of them. 

    And while I agree with Bob that it's the same amount of work, you can find good stuff under 50k. What matters is the ARV. Imo the sweet spot for maximum value is notes on houses in the 80k range.

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