Please help identify my smelly basement

Please help identify my smelly basement

New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 7 posts · 0 votes

My basement smells - not a moldy smell but something else. I was really hoping that someone can help to point me in the right direction.

Here is the background information on the house.

I purchased it 2 years ago with water damage in the basement. Apparently, a broken water pipe, rain water coming in through the door, and perhaps a previous sewage backup introduced water into apartment and it was closed up for many months perhaps years. Luckily, the carpets were removed and it was a bare concrete floor. No dehumidifier was running and anything metal such as door hardware was rusted. Needless to say, the smell could gag a maggot.

Fast forward several months. I fixed all the water infiltration issues, removed the drywall and insulation 2' around the entire apartment, bleached the studs, dehumidified and sealed with kitlz and then put in new insulation and drywall on the lower 2 feet. Anything that had water damage or mold was removed and replaced.

While tearing out the drywall, I found about 4 or 5 mice nest in the wall cavity, all dead and starting to decompose. (perhaps from all the bleach I was spraying around?) I'm certain that I removed all the mice from the walls because all the lower drywall was removed.

After removing the vermin, I repaired all entry holes on the exterior of the house so they couldn't get back in and also set traps for any that remained in the house.

Once the lower walls were replaced, I kiltz and painted all walls and the ceiling.

I have 2 high capacity dehumidifiers that have been running at 50% for the past 2 years so the humidity levels stay low.

The awful smell in gone but now I have a lingering smell that will not go away.

It now has a faint smell best described as garbage mixed with perhaps used week old coffee grounds. Maybe a hint of rotten potatoes or vegetables. It is a very distinct smell that smells nothing like mold.

It doesn't have that rotten egg sewer smell but I believe a sewage vent pipe is still a possibility.

So what could it be? Perhaps dead mice in the above in the ceiling? Sewer gas? Previous funk that was absorbed by drywall/insulation. I'm lost and don't know where to start.

I am totally stumped on this one. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.

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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
13y

"I fixed all the water infiltration issues, removed the drywall and insulation 2' around the entire apartment, bleached the studs, dehumidified and sealed with kitlz and then put in new insulation and drywall on the lower 2 feet."

You only went up 2 feet from the floor??

Most likely there is mold inside the walls you can't see or more dead rodents then you initially found.

Drywall and insulation is cheap. You should have gone up at least one panel length (4 feet ) up on the wall. With a problem like that you might want to just replace all the sheetrock on the walls.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    "I fixed all the water infiltration issues, removed the drywall and insulation 2' around the entire apartment, bleached the studs, dehumidified and sealed with kitlz and then put in new insulation and drywall on the lower 2 feet."

    You only went up 2 feet from the floor??

    Most likely there is mold inside the walls you can't see or more dead rodents then you initially found.

    Drywall and insulation is cheap. You should have gone up at least one panel length (4 feet ) up on the wall. With a problem like that you might want to just replace all the sheetrock on the walls.

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Joel is generous with his recommendation of only removing the bottom 4'. I would suggest you "take it back to the studs" - remove all the drywall and insulation. You will never have a better {read: cheaper} opportunity to ensure you have a health unit down there.

    This will have the added benefit of making it very easy to see if you have addressed all the water infiltration issue. This would also be an opportunity to affect any other needed updates or make modifications to the layout.

    If the walls had batt insulation, dispose of it and forget about putting new batt into your new walls - IMHO is has no place in a basement. If you are insulating from the inside, then closed cell spray foam is your best option - it will prevent the warm moist air in the basement from making contact with the cool walls in the summer. If closed-cell foam is outside the budget, my next choice would be hardboard insulation (ie. XPS) - probably in two layers: a thin layer which extends behind your wall framing (say 3/4 - 1") and a thinker layer in the cavities (1.5 - 2"). You would tape all seams in each layer and use a sealant around the perimeter of each sheet to achieve your air barrier.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    Thanks guys. So you think the garbage/rotten smell could be mold, dead rodents or a combination of the two?

    It doesn't really smell like mold although I understand what you are saying.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y

    Could also be old urine from the dead mice that has seeped into the flooring (especially plywood or concrete) or into the drywall. You're basically going to have to start sealing and/or removing all porous material until the smell goes away.

    We just dealt with this on a property. Ultimately, the big remediation involved extra searching (we found more dead mice), Kilz on the concrete, replacing some sheetrock and tearing out some more old carpet.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Craig: is this a basement apartment that smells, or the apartment above the basement. The garbage-y smell you are describing sounds like you might have more rodent nests hiding somewhere. Even after a dead mouse decomposes, the nest and urine smell remains for a long long time. Unless you have a bone dry environment, which you do not.

    One other thing: Have you checked to make sure that the drains for the tub/shower, toilets and sinks and washer are all properly vented? And they don't just open into a crawl space or between walls? I work with a lot of old, funky properties. It happens a lot that the toilet and/or tub aren't vented and are relying on an open sink drain as a vent. Aside from clogging issues, you'll get odors in that situation, but not always identify them as coming from the drains.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    duplicate post

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Craig Miller:

    It now has a faint smell best described as garbage mixed with perhaps used week old coffee grounds. Maybe a hint of rotten potatoes or vegetables. It is a very distinct smell that smells nothing like mold.

    It doesn't have that rotten egg sewer smell but I believe a sewage vent pipe is still a possibility.

    Like a fine wine, slightly garbagey with a hint of coffee grounds, rotten potato and vegetables!
    Sounds, or more appropriately, smells like dead rodent to me. Had a very similar problem (smell) in a bedroom. Opened up the walls and found a large, but very dead rat.

  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Along the lines of K. Marie's post- Is there a toilet? We had a very odd -almost flowery yet rotten-lingering smell in our basement around the bathroom in our new (former foreclosure) house. We ended up taking out the toilet and it had all kinds of weird......growth... (I don't know what to call it exactly, and frankly I don't want to think about it too much because it makes me gag) in the empty areas of the underside of the toilet, not where the water goes, just the empty parts of the structure. So you might want to take up the toilet and have a look, and I'll go wash my hands and try to take my mind off this memory!

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:
    Craig: is this a basement apartment that smells, or the apartment above the basement. The garbage-y smell you are describing sounds like you might have more rodent nests hiding somewhere. Even after a dead mouse decomposes, the nest and urine smell remains for a long long time. Unless you have a bone dry environment, which you do not.

    One other thing: Have you checked to make sure that the drains for the tub/shower, toilets and sinks and washer are all properly vented? And they don't just open into a crawl space or between walls? I work with a lot of old, funky properties. It happens a lot that the toilet and/or tub aren't vented and are relying on an open sink drain as a vent. Aside from clogging issues, you'll get odors in that situation, but not always identify them as coming from the drains.

    The smell is present in the basement apartment.

    I am able to see the tub plumbing due to having an access panel. It appears to have a trap and then goes straight into the concrete below. Don't see any sort of vent. Washer, tub, toilet and all sinks drain quickly and no gurgling is heard elsewhere in the house.

    Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing any vents when I had the lower portion of the drywall removed. I could be mistaken.

    Is it possible that the downstairs plumbing is not vented? Perhaps it does vent into the wall somewhere, is there a way to detect this?

    Most importantly, could it be septic gas even though it smells more less like rotten garbage and not necessarily the more recognizable rotten egg sewage smell?

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Aaron Mazzrillo:
    Originally posted by Craig Miller:

    It now has a faint smell best described as garbage mixed with perhaps used week old coffee grounds. Maybe a hint of rotten potatoes or vegetables. It is a very distinct smell that smells nothing like mold.

    It doesn't have that rotten egg sewer smell but I believe a sewage vent pipe is still a possibility.

    Like a fine wine, slightly garbagey with a hint of coffee grounds, rotten potato and vegetables!
    Sounds, or more appropriately, smells like dead rodent to me. Had a very similar problem (smell) in a bedroom. Opened up the walls and found a large, but very dead rat.

    Thanks for the reply. I actually had found one dead petrified rat in a portion of the ceiling that I replaced. He was big... Probably a 1-2 pounder. Perhaps there's more where that came from?

    I really don't know which direction to turn. Sounds more and more like dead rodents but there's still the possibility of sewage and or mold.

    I hate to start pulling drywall until I know exactly what it is.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Jean Bolger:
    Along the lines of K. Marie's post- Is there a toilet? We had a very odd -almost flowery yet rotten-lingering smell in our basement around the bathroom in our new (former foreclosure) house. We ended up taking out the toilet and it had all kinds of weird......growth... (I don't know what to call it exactly, and frankly I don't want to think about it too much because it makes me gag) in the empty areas of the underside of the toilet, not where the water goes, just the empty parts of the structure. So you might want to take up the toilet and have a look, and I'll go wash my hands and try to take my mind off this memory!

    Yes, it has a toilet and iv'e pulled it before. Looked and smelled like your typical toilet hole. Gag.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    I'm hyper sensitive about smells. Your description of garbage plus coffee grounds sounds/smells less like any kind of sewer vent or standing water issue....and more like something decomposing. Dead animals smell pretty rank in the beginning, but rat and mice nests have all kind of organic matter that take a long time to break down. Also, damp drywall, even without noticeable mold has a rotting smell. Has the smell always been there since the rehab, or did it reappear recently?

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:
    I'm hyper sensitive about smells. Your description of garbage plus coffee grounds sounds/smells less like any kind of sewer vent or standing water issue....and more like something decomposing. Dead animals smell pretty rank in the beginning, but rat and mice nests have all kind of organic matter that take a long time to break down. Also, damp drywall, even without noticeable mold has a rotting smell. Has the smell always been there since the rehab, or did it reappear recently?

    The rehab was completed just over a year ago. After the smell of fresh paint wore off (a month or so) the rotten garbage smell prevailed and has been present ever since.

    I purchased a moisture meter and checked the drywall and baseboards in several spots. I found the moisture content to be fairly low all around.

    It could possibly be damp drywall that I missed somewhere.

    I sealed off all areas where I believe the mice and rats were entering. This was done over a year ago.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    I hate smell mysteries. I'm nauseous until I figure it out and fix it.

    Some things to consider: What kind of ceiling do you have? What's the space like between the upstairs floor and the ceiling? Could you have something decomposing in that space, or something from the upstairs unit that could be contributing to it?

    During the rehab, did you seal the floor before you put flooring down. Concrete is porous, and smells remain for ever.

    What's the situation with the windows? Is there any place where they might be meeting earth instead of concrete?

    How's the drainage away from the property? Is water going anywhere that's creating damp earth next to the walls or windows? That's a different smell than mold.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:
    I hate smell mysteries. I'm nauseous until I figure it out and fix it.

    Some things to consider: What kind of ceiling do you have? What's the space like between the upstairs floor and the ceiling? Could you have something decomposing in that space, or something from the upstairs unit that could be contributing to it?

    During the rehab, did you seal the floor before you put flooring down. Concrete is porous, and smells remain for ever.

    What's the situation with the windows? Is there any place where they might be meeting earth instead of concrete?

    How's the drainage away from the property? Is water going anywhere that's creating damp earth next to the walls or windows? That's a different smell than mold.

    Thanks for all of the suggestions, all are great! I will do some investigating and post what I find.

  • Billings, MT · Member since 2013 · 102 posts · 11 votes
    13y

    You might try a powder called Ex-Stink. You can get it online. It took cat urine smell out of my basement. I swear by it. http://www.exstink.com

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