No permit was pulled--problem with resale?

Question

I'm waiting on a short sale to come through. The seller told me he replaced the sewer line (with PVC) without pulling a permit.

I'm planning to rent the house out first (for years). When I eventually sell will I have to disclose that the sewerline was unpermitted since I now know about it? Could this cause a problem with the eventual resale or with the future buyer's lender? Could I be forced to have the work permitted or redone? Thanks.

Uwe K. · Answer

Yes, you very likely would have to disclose it when selling. Not sure about the implications with buyers, lenders, etc.

You could probably permit it after the fact, but it may open up a big can of worms. 
Best case: They come, look (or not), find it ok, give you a virtual slap in the face while you play the dummy innocent novice, and they approve it.
Worst case: They put you on chains, have you bust up the concrete yourself, and practically have you rip it all out and redo with permit and licensed plumber, plus fines.

Or anything in between. You could call them and ask about it, stating you are looking into a purchase, this is the issue, how does the city see it if you want to make it right. They might be sticklers, or they might like people who want to do the right thing and give them a break.

Joel Owens · Answer

I would be concerned about the slope of the line to the street when they replaced it.If the slope isn't right or they have funky bends in it to go around big roots or above them that's when water and debris can sit and cause constant clogs.

About every 3 to 6 months the plumber then has to come out and scope the clean out outside to unblock.

If material is with dirt etc. is back up in the toilets or they slow drain  or make a gurgling noise with bubbles you could have an issue.

Make sure as mentioned before buying you get a plumber to scope it out all the way from the toilets to the main and the street to make sure there is not any issues with slopes or clogs.

I have heard many horror stories where a buyer calls the county or city and they say on the phone that everything is fine and after they buy it they get hit with all these costs,fines,etc.

If they won't give you something in writing I wouldn't feel comfortable about it but that's just me.

So this was an existing line to the street and not a sewer tank that they converted later and hooked to the city or county correct??

There was an instance before of one investor I knew who bought a house at auction.When the city annexed the area years ago houses had the option of connected to the street sewer and the city did it but it costs many thousands of dollars.This particular property owner  connected to the street themselves without telling the city.So the new owner buys it and city wants to impose unknown usage charges and fines for years of illegal hook up.

The property was having bathtub and drain issues and at first the new buyer couldn't figure out what was going on.The previous owner didn't also decommission the old sewage tank properly.

The city worked with them to refix the line but they still had to pay reduced fines etc.

Robert D. · Answer

the insurance agent/ broker is a middleman who moves paperwork between his client and underwriter/adjuster/main office etc. they might speculate but would not know that for sure until the ruling comes from the main office. once your place burns out the fire department will determine the cause. then the ball starts rolling ..was the job permitted ? the insurance company might approve your claim but they surely have grounds to deny it as the work performed was not up to the building standards ...then what ?

Eddie P. · Answer

Bienes  Raices If everything is draining correctly and there are no sewage hazards, I would be excited not worried. Do you realize to replace all the cast Iron pipes in a slab home cost in excess of $20k. For your piece of mind, maybe hire a plumber to run a camera and check for problems. Sewer lines are not pressurized so as long as they don't leak and waste moves along, you are good.

Rob K you are right about permits, I mostly will not pull one for repairs unless its already in violation. The inspectors down here make your life miserable, when they walk through your door they look for anything they can get you on regardless of what they came for. I have pulled a permit for an A/C and they write me up for a water heater drain, I pull a permit for a pool pump and they get me for a hurricane shutter. etc etc etc.

Rob K. · Answer

I believe permits are WAY over-rated. If the house had a new sewer line put in and the plumbing all drains fine, it is probably ok. If the average person rented a backhoe and bought a few hundred dollars worth of PVC, they could replace the line and it would be ok. If an actual plumber did this work, it's probably fine. A sewer line is not rocket science. Even if a permit had been pulled, that doesn't mean the job was done right. It just means that the repair would have been more costly and an overpaid underworked inspector would have shown up at some point and phoned in his approval. The plumber doing the work knows way more about sewers and plumbing than the inspector does.

If I were you, I wouldn't call the county. That way you don't know if a permit is required or not. In my state, the sellers disclosure asks if work was done without permits. It gives the choice of yes, no, or unknown. If you don't know, you can check unknown.

As far as financing, I doubt they would care about permits. When I had a new furnace put in my house, I chose not to get a permit. One of my neighbors told me that if the house burned down, my insurance would not cover the loss. I called my insurance agent and he told me that they don't care about permits. The furnace guy was licensed and insured, did the job right, and checked for carbon monoxide. I also have a carbon monoxide detector. I'm not going to pay an extra $100-$200 to the city and then have a government agent enter my residence.

If you walked away from every house that had work done without permits, you would never buy one. All of the contractors that I know would never pull a permit for any job unless the city knew about the work or the customer wanted a permit. Otherwise, it's treated as a tax.

J Scott · Answer

As Dave said, first you need to determine if any local ordinances were violated.  In my experience, replacing a sewer line generally requires a permit, so this was probably a violation of the city/county building permit regulations.

That said, it would likely be considered a material defect, and you would legally need to disclose it to a future buyer.  In addition, your standard state Seller's Disclosure document may specifically ask if you know about any work done that required permits where no permits were pulled -- you'd need to answer this one honestly as well.

Dave M. · Answer

I would check with local requirements, if you haven't already.

The reason I say that is a few years ago during a similar repair, the plumber had to stop and pull a permit when they nicked a water supply line. But there was no permit required to do the sewer.

Account Closed · Answer

i guess i'm one of the blind sheep that follows the pack...i agree permits are a pain and a ridiculous fee that the government mandates...however, they do serve a purpose...i didn't see if you specified who ran the sewer line..my understanding was the seller himself did it...that's a different story than having a licensed plumber do it on a weekend and not pulling the permit (not advocating this approach either, just separating possibilities).  if you think this will cause problems in the future when selling, i would factor that into my purchaes price now.

Account Closed · Answer

i'd stay away unless you were getting a steal and therefore, could justify the risk of having to demo floors and concrete.

Account Closed · Answer

Bienes  Raices what do you mean by replaced the sewer line?  the whole sewer line out to the street?  just a two foot section where there was a bad clog?  is the house on a slab?

No permit was pulled--problem with resale?

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