Real Estate Investor · West Des Moines, IA · Member since 2009 · 55 posts · 21 votes
Being relatively new to the game (working on our second flip), we do not have a big list of contractor connections yet. So we've been using google, references, craigslist, etc to find potential contractors (plumbing, electrical, gutters, chimney, etc). We've found 2 common themes:
1. They don't call back.
2. They don't provide a bid when they tell you they will, if at all.
Here is a rough breakdown of how our search has gone:
-Called approx. 12 contractors
-3 answered their phone
-Another 4 called back
-7 walkthroughs
-All 7 saying they would get us a bid within the week
-3 actually did
These aren't big jobs but we try to explain what we are doing and that we are looking at future works as well.
Is this normal?
It seems that 1) you answer your phone and 2) you deliver on your promises, you would be on your way to being a successful contractor.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
14y
This is pretty typical. The goal is to find one or two great contractors, and then start asking THEM for referrals -- great contractors know other great contractors and wouldn't risk their reputation by providing bad references.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
14y
This is pretty typical. The goal is to find one or two great contractors, and then start asking THEM for referrals -- great contractors know other great contractors and wouldn't risk their reputation by providing bad references.
Investor · Little Rock, AR · Member since 2010 · 628 posts · 251 votes
14y
My current rehab is my first experience with contractors. I tried a well know and reptuable firm that I hired to do some exterior work. They had all of these no intrest programs etc that was inticing. But, once I put them to work, the crew was on their own. The only supervision they had was from me. It didn't turn out well because I was called out of town during the repairs.
I have found a window guy and flooring guy I will use in the future. I found the window guy on Craig's List. The flooring guy was a referal from the carpet vendor. His crew wants to work for me on weekends and evenings doing other repairs. I may try them on the next project. This one is about done. I did try a painter off of Craig's List. He didn't like the way I operate and drug up after one day.
My experiences are about the same as yours trying to recrute at Home Depot in the mornings.
Don
Electrical Contractor · both, Maine & Florida · Member since 2011 · 129 posts · 53 votes
14y
It works the other way around too, I've been a contractor for 29 years and had a bunch of good customers that kept me busy enough so I didn't take work from strangers. Working for people that know what their doing makes things easier and knowing your gonna get paid is nice too...
Investor · Little Rock, AR · Member since 2010 · 628 posts · 251 votes
14y
Originally posted by Dick M.:
It works the other way around too, I've been a contractor for 29 years and had a bunch of good customers that kept me busy enough so I didn't take work from strangers. Working for people that know what their doing makes things easier and knowing your gonna get paid is nice too...
That makes a whole lot of sense to me. But, I am thouroughly amused at the people that place ads for work then you can't get them to work.
Don
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
14y
This works both ways. First off, remember that most general contractors would prefer doing a job that did not require dismantling and starting over again. When you are doing rehabs, it is not the same thing as a contractor starting from scratch on a new roof, or concrete driveway, or new siding.
Dick – you make a great point about wanting to know that you are going to be paid. When you look at how many rehab or are on bigger pocket, and of those how many are looking for financing I can understand your concern on doing a rehab.
J Scott also makes a very good point.If you can find someone you are comfortable with as a contractor, pick his brain. Ask him for additional contacts in other situations he might not specialize in. A word of warning here also. I have seen contractors constantly step up their pricing. You have to be careful of that also when they begin to take you for granted
Don-some contractors prefer certain kinds of jobs and yours may not be the one that they are interested in doing. That might also vary depending upon their availability, hence they put a generic ads in where they have different opportunities to select from. Rich
Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2010 · 45 posts · 13 votes
14y
I'm pretty new to the game but had a similar experience. I actually found the contractor I use from my lender and the lender was referred to me from an investor at my local REI. Things have gone well so far. It's really all about recommendations I think.
Property Manager · New Durham, NH · Member since 2011 · 15 posts · 8 votes
14y
Hi Brad,
I have been a contractor for nearly 30 years. I have worked in all levels of construction both commercial and residential. Unfortunately what you are seeing is a sad but true view of the people in our industry. Of course, this is not every contractor.
Not all contactors are going to be bad and of the good ones, not all will be a fit for you. Contractors are as unique as real estate. Of they guys you spoke to, probably quite a few were performing the work themselves. It is a physically demanding occupation and not many guys have the ability to do work and then go home to sell, estimate and do their books.
I think these tips for finding a good contractor will be useful to you. I deal with other contractors all of the time. It seems I find a good one for about every six I try. Knowing how to use their strengths and abilities is important as well. Occasionally I have a customer that thinks I am just a middleman and try to cut me out of the process expecting to save money. They often find that these contractors work better for me than for them. This is because I connect the service where they are inefficient. I have the experience to preemptively solve potential problems.
First, find a good lumber yard with good service. Ask which sales inside person gives the best service. Explain your project and ask that sales person to recommend someone. They know who is responsive and customer service orientated. This will not work well at a big box store.
Don’t deal with guys who do not call back or have poor communication skills. They may be skilled at their work but you will not get what you want. Guys like that are better suited as subs.
Contractors with web sites or literature are usually better communicators. The more information they are willing to provide (this is true of their estimates as well) the more sure they are of what they are doing.
Don’t deal with guys who don’t understand the intent of your project. I often find good trades people who think that they have the best quality and that their way is the only way. In my work, I try to provide the project that is right for the customer. While we are capable of very high end work , this comes at a premium for detail and material. There is a concept of like kind and quality. I try to give the customer the best quality and value for the subject property that provides them with a solution to the problem that prompted their inquiry to begin with. In other words, you never put a high end kitchen in a low end rental.
Don’t do open ended (time and material) projects unless you are extremely knowledgeable. Get a price. If the contractor tells you this will get you the best deal, then ask for a “not to exceed number”. I have a policy that extras are something the customer asks for. My knowledge and experience should provide ample protection against unforeseen problems and I will warn my customers of these potential issues prior to contract.
You will know if your contractor has the ability to manage your expectations. Eliminate contractors quickly who think that the purpose of a customer is to keep them working.
Ask your contractors for references. Check the references. Ask about their work habits, deadlines and quality. Ask your contractor to see their work in progress. You can tell a lot about a contractor by visiting a site.
One more thought on asking the supplier for references is that you will more likely to get a guy who is paying his bills. Even a good tradesman will be dangerous to work with if he is in financial trouble.
Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
14y
My problem is similar but a little different. Sure, finding a good contractor is hit and miss. I have had good experiences and bad finding them from many sources. That is totally expected..
My issues has been KEEPING them.
This is what happens to me. I find a guy who is good and reasonably priced. Inevitably during the first job he discovers that I do several homes a year. One would think that would be a positive....the guy would have incentive to do good work to get more work.
However, what I have found in almost every case is that on the next job, the price goes up a bunch. It is like they think they have you hooked and you trust them, so now they can really gouge you and you won't care.
Kind of like Comcast does, raising my rates every few months cause they know what a pain it is to switch.
Basically, I like a guy, then he tries to gouge me...then I don't trust him anymore and it is over. Back to square one.
Starting to think the only option is to hire my own guys full-time.
Investor · Member since 2009 · 132 posts · 30 votes
14y
The most efficient way to get solid contractors is through referrals. I would start with your local REIA or just start trying to talk with other investors. I am very clear upfront on what I want. I have also found that paying a little more is not always a bad thing if it gets you a solid crew because it will probably save you $ in the long run. Dont always go with the lowest bid, go with the most reputable.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
14y
Originally posted by Eric Michaels:
However, what I have found in almost every case is that on the next job, the price goes up a bunch. It is like they think they have you hooked and you trust them, so now they can really gouge you and you won't care.
It's up to you to not let contractors do this. When you get the first high bid, ask why the price is so much higher than the previous jobs. Then say, "I'm very happy with the work you've done in the past and the prices you've charged me. I'm not willing to pay more for similar work, so if you can give me the same price, I'm happy to give you the job, otherwise I'll have to find someone else."
If they refuse to give you a lower price, say, "No problem...should I call you to give me bids on future projects?"
Also, keep in mind that many contractors will give you a low price on the first job if they know you are an investor who will have lots of projects. Make sure you factor that in.
Developer · Andover, MA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 489 votes
14y
The biggest issue for me is when they don't keep up the communication. I work a full time job and invest part time so communication is key. Anyway, a couple months ago I posted an add on Craigslist, bid clerk and found some local contractors on Angie list. I got about 50+ responses and narrowed the list down to 10 with 5-10 min phone interviews. I had the 10 meet with my bus partner and me to get a better sense of their company and explain what we do so everyone can decide if the business relationship makes sense. I made sure each contractor brought copies of their licenses, insurances, workmans comp, pictures of recent work and provided a minimum of 5 references. We now have 3 great crews lined up for our next project. I'll call the references and stop by their job sites before they actually start the project. IIt took a lot of time to respond to the contractors, make calls and interview but hopefully the effort will pay off.
Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
14y
Originally posted by J Scott:
It's up to you to not let contractors do this. When you get the first high bid, ask why the price is so much higher than the previous jobs.
Yeah, I do that. And sometimes they come down but I don't really care. The relationship is ruined in my eyes. If I feel like they are going to try to screw me as soon as I am not looking, I don't want them working for me.
Just frustrating that it seems to work like that.