Rehabbing Kitchen Estimate - is this a fair price?

Rehabbing Kitchen Estimate - is this a fair price?

Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes

Hello!

I'm looking to rehab this kitchen and found a contractor I really liked. This would be a place I will be living in for a while and I want to be sure it's done right, not cheap. Here are some photos, so you have an idea of what I'm talking about: 

Essentially, I'd like to demo the kitchen cabinets, knock out the wall to the left and create a peninsula. I'd then like to move the stove where the fridge is, and the fridge to the right of the sink counter. I then want to install 4 can lights over the kitchen and 2 pendant boxes over the peninsula. All new appliances, hardwood floor (to match the rest of the condo), etc.. 

The contractor I liked the best gave me a quote of $10,500. I would have to purchase all appliances, sink, floors and extras. This is what I have budgeted:

$3000 for appliances
$350 sink
$100 garbage disposal
$450 hood vent
$300 facet
$100 backsplash
$350 hardwood floor
$1000 granite counter top
$1000 white wood cabinets with silver hardware

First question: is this a reasonable budget for what I'll need to buy? 

Second question: What is the wiggle room for what contracts quote you and what they will go down to?

Third question: This is the estimate I received, does this seem reasonable?

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Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2012 · 131 posts · 83 votes
11y

I think all those labor prices are high... Even for LA.  I couldn't imagine paying that in Atlanta.   I mean $950 to tear out cabinets and haul away... It would take you 2 hours max to do that and then you could buy a bagster from home depot for like 60 bucks for the debris. 

Framing the header for $1200...? Moving a water line for $450..? I've had my plumber move tons of water lines for and hook up sinks... both would cost me together $175 max.  $1150 for installing granite?  Since you are supplying the granite you know they offer free installation and sink when you buy it.

If I were you I would hire each trade out separately.  This is a small job and you don't need a contractor.  Find a plumber for the water lines, find an electrician for the can lights, buy the granite from the store and they will install it, find a painter and floor guy.  Reasonable labor should be like 7.5k total if you are buying all the material.

Remember the contractor is just subbing all this work out to the lowest bidder anyways.

Best of luck.

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  • Specialist · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 231 posts · 69 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    When you move a gas stove, you might find some building code restrictions must be met on proximity to combustible surfaces. Especially when you have the stove planned to be butted up alongside the wall. 

    BINGO!

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Watson Smith:

     $1150 for installing granite?  Since you are supplying the granite you know they offer free installation and sink when you buy it.

    Can you please tell me what stores will offer free installation and sink when I buy granite? Is there is limited quantity? I'd need about 30 sq. ft (is that 2 slabs)?

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 50 posts · 20 votes
    11y

    I'll add that you should consider your own hourly earnings rate when deciding whether to be the general contractor or hire one.  If you are a high enough wage earner then it may be simpler to work more and pay for a GC.  Any work day you are "saving money" being the GC (instead of going to work) is a day that still costs you money in lost pay. 

  • Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2012 · 131 posts · 83 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Julian L.:
    Originally posted by @Watson Smith:

     $1150 for installing granite?  Since you are supplying the granite you know they offer free installation and sink when you buy it.

    Can you please tell me what stores will offer free installation and sink when I buy granite? Is there is limited quantity? I'd need about 30 sq. ft (is that 2 slabs)?

    Any granite supplier should offer this.  I honestly don't know of one that doesn't.  In my part of town there wasn't a minimum qty you had to buy... 25-30sqft got the sink cut out and installed for free though.  $30-$35, a sqft gets you above average granite installed for free.  Just google for a local shop in your area and go look at the slabs they have to offer... I'd stay away from homedepot for this though.

  • Investor, Landlord and Entrepreneur · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2010 · 27 posts · 15 votes
    11y

    I flipped a lot of houses in the last 18 months so i have my prices down pretty good.  Your price is going to depend on you local area labor cost (i work in phoenix) and your local materials costs.  The type of contractor you have (licensed/unlicensed, two man team with subs or full crew) will make a big difference in your overall price.  Assuming your material costs are the same and your labor is similar (12 -15basic labor, 20-25 skilled and 30-35licensed) your getting screwed.

    If you want to be a flipper you need to have all your materials picked and priced out in a spread sheet, home depot is a good place to start. It prevents confusion and allows you to estimate materials costs accurately.

    Ok. All your prices depend on material choices, sqft, where your services are brought from etc so its difficult to estimate from pictures alone.  From what i can see your labor price (overall) is almost about 25% higher than what i would pay in Phoenix.

    I recently renovated a 13 unit building and all the kitchens were identical to what you are doing. I can send you a completely broken down bid by labor/material if you send me a PM with your email.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y

    @Rejean Julien- I just sent you a PM. 

    An update, I negotiated down to $9,000 for the work, minus the counter installation. 

    Can any recommend where to get appliances? Should I just go to Best Buy or is there a better option? It looks like I can actually get everything I need for $2500, lower than my $3k I had budgeted. 

    I've got 30 sq ft of quartz countertops, with installation for $990... much better than my $1100 for just the installation. 

  • Investor · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2014 · 207 posts · 190 votes
    11y

    @Julian L., I usually just order from Bestbuy to get reward points, Lowes or HD are ok too, they price match each others anyway.  Sometime they have good deals at Costco.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y

    Ok, so just an update... 

    I got the contractor down to $9k

    I got my appliances for $2300

    The cabinets are killing me. I only budgeted $1500, and it's looking like they will cost me twice as much! Does anyone know where I can get some good, but affordable (not cheap) cabinets?  I'm close to pulling the trigger at RTA Kitchen Cabinets, but $3k... gahh... I want to shop around a bit. 

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y

    Just giving people an update...

    When all is said in done, I'm looking at being over budget by a mere $321. A lot will depend on the countertops I can negotiate, but I think $1200 is fair for product and installation for 20 sq ft. 

    Some photos of the project so far: 

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2014 · 351 posts · 220 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Watson Smith:

    I think all those labor prices are high... Even for LA.  I couldn't imagine paying that in Atlanta.   I mean $950 to tear out cabinets and haul away... It would take you 2 hours max to do that and then you could buy a bagster from home depot for like 60 bucks for the debris. 

    Framing the header for $1200...? Moving a water line for $450..? I've had my plumber move tons of water lines for and hook up sinks... both would cost me together $175 max.  $1150 for installing granite?  Since you are supplying the granite you know they offer free installation and sink when you buy it.

    If I were you I would hire each trade out separately.  This is a small job and you don't need a contractor.  Find a plumber for the water lines, find an electrician for the can lights, buy the granite from the store and they will install it, find a painter and floor guy.  Reasonable labor should be like 7.5k total if you are buying all the material.

    Remember the contractor is just subbing all this work out to the lowest bidder anyways.

    Best of luck.

     Good job Watson...... I completely agree with you.  I was thinking also that $3000 for appliances and then paying for a range vent is excessive.   Good luck to all

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 283 posts · 179 votes
    11y

    making good progress. Keep us posted with some pics and what the project ended up costing. GL

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Logan Turner:

    making good progress. Keep us posted with some pics and what the project ended up costing. GL

     Just an update.. 

    Kitchen is now repainted. Floors are done and look great. 

    Cabinets and counters go in this week. 

  • Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 38 posts · 7 votes
    11y

    @Julian L.

     looks good so far! what is the time frame on the total project?

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mike Mitchell:

    @Julian L.

     looks good so far! what is the time frame on the total project?

     Project started May 23rd and it should be finished by June 15... 3 weeks

  • Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2012 · 131 posts · 83 votes
    11y

    Looking good.

    Did you end up buying your cabinets from the RTA store?  I bought mine from there.  That was 2 years ago and they still look brand new.  I bought the ones you assemble and used a 30% off code and free shipping.  Came out to be a good deal.  Just make sure your order some samples doors cause the colors look a little different on the computer screen.

    Did you get your appliances from Best Buy?  I personally won't buy anything from that store.  I think their prices are horrible so I'd shop around.  HD or Lowes is ok.  I always price them out.  They normally run a sale so they might have one for Forth of July.  We have a place called Brand Smart USA that sells nothing but appliances.  I always grab last years models to save.  They have a "scratch and dent" section as well.  If the scratch is on the side and hidden you can negotiate a good deal.  HHGregg has a good selection as well.  Regardless, I don't think there's a whole lot of mark up on consumer appliances.  One store isn't going to be that much different from the next.  The money to be made on these is by financing or selling in large volume.

  • Investor · Lawndale, CA · Member since 2015 · 58 posts · 18 votes
    11y

    Off the cuff - the cost looks about right for California. 10,000 for a new kitchen? Yep. It looks like you are already cutting major expenses by providing the most expensive supplies yourself.

    As others have mentioned in this thread: check the contractor's license. Anything to worry about will show up there. Please keep in mind that a contractor usually has a crew that they work well with (save time = save money). 

    Many newbie rehabbers make the mistake of piecing out work to themselves (do the demo yourself? How much time are you taking out of your schedule? Is it monetarily worth it?) and other sub-contractors. The commonly unforeseen mistake of this practice is that you have several sub-contractors and yourself all working on different timelines. For example, when a client has done this, we inevitably have delays in completion. As in, "The painter isn't done, we can't start on the floors. The electrician hasn't shown up, so the other crew can't get started on the drywall. Oh, you changed your mind on the counter tops you like so there is a two week delay for everyone while we wait for your special order to come in." Contracting jobs where everything is pieced out is messy and in the end causes delays which is no big deal if you are living there, but when you are floating cash on a flip, every delay is dollars out of pocket trying to get to the sale date finish line.

    A good contractor not only knows how to get the work done right - they also know how to manage your project. Does your contractor have a crew/subcontractors? You have a variety of jobs on a kitchen remodel. Be wary of a contractor that says they "do it all" themselves from plumbing, to electric, to demo? They need a crew.

    Hope that was helpful. Best blessings on your remodel!

  • Flipper · SANTA ROSA, CA · Member since 2009 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Hi there JULIAN. I'm finding your post and the replies interesting as I can relate to remods of kitchen and bathrooms. a free site to give you some reference.  costvsvalue.com.

    Good turn around time and looks professional. I did not see the duck work for the range  hood vent? or the (2) 20 amp gfi outlets for the counter top in your photos.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Watson Smith:

    Looking good.

    Did you end up buying your cabinets from the RTA store?  I bought mine from there.  That was 2 years ago and they still look brand new.  

    Did you get your appliances from Best Buy?  I personally won't buy anything from that store.  I think their prices are horrible so I'd shop around.  HD or Lowes is ok.  I always price them out.  

     Yes, I got my cabinets from the RTA store and they look great. This was the only thing that I really underestimated and it put me over budget a bit. I'll know to budget more for cabinets next time.

    I got the appliances from Best Buy. They will match if you find a price lower  than theirs. I found them to be the lowest on all except my oven. I was able to find my exact same oven for $70 lower and they were able to match and gave me a refund.  

    An update on how it's coming together:

  • Sarasota, FL · Member since 2014 · 40 posts · 10 votes
    11y

    @Julian L. Looks like it's coming together nicely. Thanks for posting this, very informative!

  • Contractor · Passaic, NJ · Member since 2015 · 60 posts · 14 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Julian L.:

     Julian,

    I would recommend putting a refrigerator panel on the left side of the fridge to help support the weight of the 24" deep cabinet above.

  • Contractor · washington, Washington D.C. · Member since 2011 · 204 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    The area were you are at makes the price go up from reading you are from CA so the price for a area like that may be more.If you read all the post some say its high some say its ok different area . If you are in NY DC CA  the labor price is going to be more for some area like that . If you are staying in a 400,000 home you are going to pay more for some cabinets than a home that cost 150,000 when they are paying more they want more and expect more. Lowes has one of the best kitchen install  plans out like the guy from the post said . They may be a little higher but you can get it at 5.9% for 84 months great when you are renting are flipping just to give you aheads up we do a ton of install for them .Check some reference and price can vary from contractor to contractor. Ex I charge more and will get more because my quality of work and  name. If you go with him tell him you will give him cash if he takes off 8-10% and do the demo yourself  those two are about  2,000 you made in two  days . you get the kitchen you want he gets the job and you save, clients do it to me all the time.Please check ref find out if you need permits by all means do not give to much money up front good luck  .

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y

    Update, counters are in. White Quartz was $1200 and included installation. 

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 36 votes
    11y

    We are adding  2 more lights, that wasn't included in the original proposal. Everything else is done. I'm very happy with my choice in contractors. 

    I'll include final photos and numbers for you all at some point tomorrow. 

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