Urgent question - Opinion on installing PEX piping

Rehabbing & House Flipping
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Urgent question - Opinion on installing PEX piping

Andy K
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 48 posts · 4 votes

We have a rental property in the Inland Empire in So Cal and the tenant living there was getting very high water bills for the past few months. When they called the utility company last week, they were told there could be a possible leak in one of the pipes. I had a plumber go by yesterday to do a leak detection, and he found a slab leak under the bathtub in the bathroom. The plumber suggests re-routing the pipes from the main water supply of the home to the bathroom, instead of digging a hole in the concrete and fixing the part of the leaking pipe.

He gave me a quote of about $2500 to re-route most of the piping in the home, and said he will be using PEX piping. When I read up on the internet, there seem to be a number of lawsuits against PEX piping and some plumbers even refuse to use PEX piping because of their quality. I would like to ask folks here if they have used PEX piping before in any of their properties? How is the quality of PEX piping, and should it be used instead of copper piping? Or is copper piping the better choice? I need to make a quick decision on this, since I need to get this leak fixed soon. Hence any advice is appreciated.

Also, does $2500 quote for re-routing the pipes seem like a fair price?

I found the above plumber reading good reviews on Yelp. If anyone on the board can recommend a good and honest plumber who they have used before and does work in Riverside county (So Cal), that reference will be much appreciated. Thanks for your help.

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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
13y

I have used Pex piping before and I like it. You don't have to solder fittings on and copper fittings are getting way expensive. Copper is not as bad to work on now due to having sharkbite fittings. They also work on pex lines. I do not know the size of your house, but both Pex and copper pipe is pretty expensive, and you have to buy copper fittings for both. Without an idea of the number of lineal feet of piping and conditions like walls etc. I cannot say how reasonable the qoute is.

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  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I have used Pex piping before and I like it. You don't have to solder fittings on and copper fittings are getting way expensive. Copper is not as bad to work on now due to having sharkbite fittings. They also work on pex lines. I do not know the size of your house, but both Pex and copper pipe is pretty expensive, and you have to buy copper fittings for both. Without an idea of the number of lineal feet of piping and conditions like walls etc. I cannot say how reasonable the qoute is.

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  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    13y

    There is no perfect pipe. None last forever. Personally, I love pex. I just put a bunch of it in my own house. Over 40 crimps and not one leak. OTOH, copper is just as reliable. I rarely have a problem with a solder joint, either. Galvanized pipe, OTOH, is absolutely horrible. If you have galvanized under your slab, yeah, you're going to have troubles. We had some pretty severe flood damage and had to rip out a bunch of sheetrock. I'll probably replace the last sections of galvanized with PEX while everything it torn apart.

    Before agreeing to a big job like that I'd get at least one more bid. Two would be better.

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  • Bryan R.
    Tacoma, WA · Member since 2010 · 203 posts · 93 votes
    13y

    PEX is approved for use in all 50 states. It is quickly becoming the dominant product in residential water supply. And for good reason, it is cheap and easy to work with.

    From what I can recall the "lawsuits" largely related early use of a certain type of brass fitting by some manufacturers in areas with heavily mineralized water.

    I appreciate cautiousness in adopting new technology, but it seems to me anyone refusing to use PEX at this point might just be stuck in their ways.

    $2500 for a repipe is a decent price, though of course it is hard to say over the internet and without knowing anything about the house. If it was me I would go with PEX. Copper is nice, but not worth the cost.

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  • Andy K
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 48 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Thanks for the quick replies. Really appreciate it. Is there PEX from a particular company (or a particular type of PEX piping make) that is the best to use? Any PEX company/make to avoid?

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  • Charlie Hampton
    Contractor · Franklinville, NJ · Member since 2013 · 183 posts · 86 votes
    13y

    I order all of my pex stuff from pexsupply.com. I buy fittings by the bag because I know any left over will be used somewhere else and it is cheaper than buying individual fittings at home depot. I did 3 houses in pex including my personal residence and have yet to have a leak. I love how fast and easy it is.

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  • George C.
    Involved In Real Estate · My City, NJ · Member since 2013 · 181 posts · 81 votes
    13y

    Pex is awesome, I'll never go back to copper. That price for $2,500 he gave you, double it if you wanted to go with copper. The price of copper is crazy. I paid $1,200 for 3/4" K water line, just for the material for a water main line for a new house in 2009. The water dept didn't allow plastic pipe that only would've cost me less that $150.

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  • Andy K
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 48 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Is it true that mice and other rodents can chew through PEX piping quite easily and cause leaks, as compared to copper piping?

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  • Rick Bradd
    Real Estate Lender · Pt Hueneme, CA · Member since 2012 · 110 posts · 47 votes
    13y

    I have had three slab leaks now with costs between 8,000 for replacing all the damaged kitchen cabinets to 1,000 for the last one. The hardest part is actually locating the exact source of the leak. The last one I got a bid on I agreed to have a pinpoint leak detection company come in and confirm where the leak was before we did the bypass and it was well worth it, because there were multiple manifolds that branched off on the feed lines, my plumber was off by over six feet, it would have taken twice as long.

    A simple bypass in itself is not that expensive, but if they have to cut and replace drywall and paint etc it can add up. I would bet your quote is pretty good but I would get a second one to confirm it, and I would highly recommend you use a specialist company to pinpoint the exact spot of the leak. In fact I wish I had had the specialist just do the whole job, they cost a little more but they only do slab leak repairs and are very quick.

    Good luck.

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  • George C.
    Involved In Real Estate · My City, NJ · Member since 2013 · 181 posts · 81 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Andy K:
    Is it true that mice and other rodents can chew through PEX piping quite easily and cause leaks, as compared to copper piping?

    Andy,

    That could be a slight possibility, nothing is 100% fool proof. There are pluses over copper besides cost. If a hot bare wire came in contact with it, your not going to energize the water. If can freeze and thaw with no damage, so long as a fitting isn't involved. If it is in the vicinity of a fire, it will help put it out where copper wont do a thing to help. It's super easy to work with... Pex had me at cost alone....

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  • Andy K
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 48 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    One question: When can a slab leak cause mold to grow? If the leak is under the bathtub or the cabinet, can that cause mold? What kind of surface does water need to come in contact with to cause mold? Thanks.

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    There is mildew and there is mold. There is airborne mold and surface mold. Water alone is not the only cause of mold and there can be other things. You can have improper installations and sealing and breathability issues in a property. If the air isn't circulating you can get all kinds of issues.

    We breathe in mold spores everyday and they are part of life. The key is when things go out of balance. When our body gets too much of something at dangerous levels that is when bad things start to happen.

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  • Edward Burns
    Rockford, IL · Member since 2013 · 330 posts · 62 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Andy K:
    One question: When can a slab leak cause mold to grow? If the leak is under the bathtub or the cabinet, can that cause mold? What kind of surface does water need to come in contact with to cause mold? Thanks.

    Mold usually requires a warm, moist environment to grow. It can grow on a wide variety of substrates (concrete, wood, plastic, tile, food, etc.). It reproduces through spores and the spores can survive in extreme conditions. A water leak can in or under a house can produce conditions ideal for their growth. Please note: there are hundreds if not thousand varieties of mold and not all mold is harmful but it can be unsitely and potentially damaging, so in my opinion should always be gotten rid of where possible. One common mold which is beneficial is the basis for penicillin, but that does not mean I want it growing on my bread.

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  • Andy K
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 48 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Thanks everyone for your replies. Sorry guys, I have a lot of questions since this is the first time I am going through this.

    My dilemma is whether I should call my home insurance company (Farmers) and let them know about this leak? My deductible on the policy is $2500 (and that is what is going to be the cost to fix the slab leak, so won't get any payment from the insurance company). Also, it seems like they don't cover the cost to fix the leak, but cover any damage done by it. But the question is whether there is any damage done (like mold) due to this leak, since looks like it has been going on for 9-10 months. And I won't know about the damage till the plumber opens up the drywall.

    Is it okay to call the insurance company after the drywall has been opened and IF there are signs of water damage? Will the insurance company still process the claim or will they deny it since the dry wall was opened and work began on it?

    I am looking for advice on the best way to handle this situation - whether to call the insurance before beginning the work or wait till later. Also, can they deny the claim saying it was negligence since it has been going on for a few months now (the tenants never informed me till late last week).Thanks.

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  • Edward Burns
    Rockford, IL · Member since 2013 · 330 posts · 62 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Andy K:

    Is it okay to call the insurance company after the drywall has been opened and IF there are signs of water damage? Will the insurance company still process the claim or will they deny it since the dry wall was opened and work began on it?

    You have an obligation to your insurance company to minimize damage. To do this you have to locate the leak, so in my opinion, to contact the insurance company after repairs in not a problem. I would keep good records on what is done, where why and the cost. But with a repair cost estimate of $2500 and a $2500 deductible I do not see any reason for contacting the insurance company.

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