Hello all. My wife and I are having a disagreement that we need you to weigh in on. Here is what we are having a hard time with: We started dating in 2012, and I've always held a W-2 job of some kind. I hated the last job I worked at. It was at an asphalt plant and I made good money, usually around $850-1000/week, depending on overtime, etc. I was extremely unhappy at the job and knew that I had more potential that I hadn't tapped into. Fast forward to 2015 and I started to have a serious interest in persuing real estate. I bought my first duplex for $16,000 and now make $650 on one side and $675 on the other. After that one, I bought a house for $27,500, worth $130,000. Fixed it up a bit and rented it out for $975/month. Next house, bought it for $36,000 and fixed it up, rented it out for $1600/month for the past 3 years, and so on. It was just really blowing up and I was getting insane deals left and right. Seeing this, my wife supported me and when I brought up the idea of quitting my job to do real estate full time, she fully was on board. It is now 2018. We've built a very successful real estate portfolio over 18 units, and here are the figures for each: - Have 60k into house, house worth 150k. Rents for $1280/month. (523) - Have 25k into duplex, worth 40k. Rents for $1325/month. (8-10) -Have 40k into house, worth 130k. Rents for $975/month. (122) -Have 50k into house, worth 110k. Rents for $1025/month. (46) -Have 50k into house, worth 125k. Rents for $1250/month. (40) -Have 60k into house, worth 130k. Rents for $1200/month. (709) -Have 50k into house, worth 85k. Rents for $985/month. (59) -Have 60k into house, worth 125k. Rents for $1747/month. (290) -Have 50k into house, worth 110k. Rents for $1245/month. (78) - Have 75k into houses, worth 130k. Rents for $2115/month. (77) -Have $10,000 into duplex, worth 30k. Rents for $1150/month. (171-173) - Have $65k into house, worth 125k. Rents for $1200/month. (12) - Have 25k into house, worth 35k. Rents for $1150/month. (640) We also have a flip house coming up. We bought it for $15,000 and will have around $100,000 into it when finished. It will sell for in the 130k neighborhood. As you can see, we've brought on a good amount of properties in the past 3 years, and the returns on them are around 20%. On the business side, we have $450,000 in debt for them all, and our net worth is around 1.3 million, minus our debt, our net worth is around $645,000. We make around $7,000 cash flow per month in rental income, net. Here's the thing. So, on a business side, our business is running itself pretty much and doing great, making a monthly return. BUT on the personal side, my wife is now the only one who holds a W-2 job, and makes $700/week. Since I quit my job to focus on real estate full time, we've been paying our household bills and living on JUST her income, and putting 100% of the business income back into the rentals and acquisitions of new rentals. She has recently come to me, upset, feeling like it's "not fair" that she is the only one of us who now goes to an office M-F and pays all of our monthly bills (My $477 monthly truck payment, $540 electric/heat bill, groceries, both of our credit cards, and anything else we buy) out of solely her paycheck, and feels that I do not contribute. In my defense, I feel that me managing the rentals (meeting with contractors, looking at and aquiring new properties, and keeping the ball rolling in general) is my contribution, and going back to a W-2 job would be going backwards for me, with all that I've built while not having a W-2 job anymore. She feels like a "sugarmama" and "used." Is she justified in feeling this way? In your opinion, should I go back to getting a W-2 job and doing the rentals, etc, as well, on top of it? Or is she being unreasonable? Thank you!

First of all, let me say congrats and you've done an amazing job with your portfolio. Now... My apologies in advance, but I'm going to be a bit brutal with this one. But what I hear from you right now, @Joshua D. is a lot of EGO talking. I know, because I've been there myself, I've been IT myself, but you need to remember one thing. Your wife's full time job is what has enabled you to focus on your investing and grow the way you have. She's basically supported you for all of these years with HER income. A lot of people have weighed in on this, and nearly all of them have been in the direction that you don't want to hear, and while you haven't outright rejected them... you also have "listened". All I've heard from you are justifications and excuses. I'm not saying those justifications are wrong, and I'm not saying you're wrong. You've done an admirable job, and I completely understand where you're coming from... but your attitude is wrong. Perception IS reality, and if she perceives that she has been used... then to her, she has been and no amount of reasoning or justification will change that in her mind. Besides... you've already indicated that your company is very streamlined and that it mostly runs itself so exactly what DO you do all day? Also, is she coming home from working all day and seeing you playing video games or taking a nap? Remember, she doesn't see what you're doing when she's at work, what she is probably seeing is someone who hangs out at home or with friends, does whatever he wants, and makes no income. Besides, if the business runs pretty streamlined, then what exactly prevents you from getting a stable job, and adding MORE money to your investment goals as well as to improving your lifestyle? If she's covering expenses already, then any extra is GRAVY. What you really need to do right now is to think about what your priority in life is. Take a HARD look and decide... Your spouse, or your company... because like it or not, they are currently mutually exclusive and you need to make a decision as to which one you want to place FIRST and I expect you need to decide quickly before the decision is made for you. If you want to keep your marriage then you need to change her perception, and you've gotten several excellent suggestions here already. Start paying yourself a wage from your company, or get a job to supplement (which really is a win-win situation, more money = happier wife PLUS more investment capital). Regardless, you need to change her perception before she decides to change her partner. If you decide you are more interested in your company then you better get divorced now. Your marriage will never work if you have ANY priority above your wife. Plain and simple. Even when you have kids, most women can't accept you prioritizing the children over them, even if they prioritize the children over you. Keep her happy, and everything else will be smooth. If you have to slow down your growth, then so be it. Or work a little harder and actually increase your growth, as well as additional padding for yourself against a downturn. The PM or realtor ideas are GREAT because they position you to learn even more about the business, and possibly get inside info. Good luck, regardless of which path you decide to take.

I almost feel uncomfortable replying to this topic because its not really any of my business, but you brought it up so... Get a marriage counselor then a CPA. That said you are both to blame, not just you. Read between her lines...she is resenting her situation, but it sounds like you also resent the fact that she grew up with money and you didn't. So what? Shouldn't matter, maybe you think she should be the main contributor because of that, and bc she doesn't know how to curtail her spending, the value of a dollar, Sounds like you are trying to give her a life lesson or prove a point. Thats not your job really, and she resents that. BUT...You have definitely worked your tail off, with the acquisitions that you have done, and the research and seminars you have attended. Thats no easy feat either. She may feel left out, she may hate her job, she may feel guilty about all that , there are lots of reasons she is upset and it may not be about the money at all for her. Find a professional and be honest with each other. It sounds as if you are both using RE biz as your excuse for why things have gotten sour. Often in life when things are going well we sabotage ourselves because we think we don't deserve to be happy, loved, and wealthy. But thats simply not true...its a false belief. I wish you both the best, I would kill to have a portfolio like yours and I would enjoy every minute of it with my spouse.

Help my wife and I solve this FIGHT. Should I get a W-2 job?

Brian Pulaski

Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

Did you and her have any discussions about your plans and goals? If not, that's a terrible idea. Second, if you have a successful real estate "company" why are you not drawing some kind of paycheck? I get wanting to grow and expand as fast as possible, but your wife feels stressed by being the sole breadwinner, when you have a successful company. I have known a LOT of business owners, whether real estate or not. They all pay themselves enough to survive.

In my opinion, no you don't "need" a W2 job, but you do need to contribute to your wife/family from your successful company.

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Mike CumbieBusiness Member

REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

8y

She is not being unreasonable. She has a valid point. Instead of your business putting all of the profits back into itself, it needs to start paying you for your time, which in turn goes into the household to take some of the weight off of her.

That $7000 a month profit should have a chunk put aside for taxes, a chunk put aside for working capitol and a chunk to an account she has access to to pay household bills. Even $2000 a month is something. She most likely feels like shes drowning trying to stay afloat while you are driving around in a new truck hanging out with contractors and throwing lunches on your card.... which she pays for.

Just my 2 cents but your house is the most important one to get in order.

Good Luck!

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Jim K.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

8y

Josh, what's your total monthly net return off the business? And how many tenants do you see a week? Seriously, buddy, I'd sweat bullets every time I looked at the truck. It's a disaster waiting to happen, as I think you already know. Every time a tenant sees that truck, they feel a blinding stab of pure hatred.

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Joshua D.Pro Member

OP

Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 712 posts · 173 votes

8y

We make around $7,000/month off of the business, net. However, we've been putting it all back into construction costs and paying our lines of credit and mortgages, up until this point. And I don't see any of our tenants. We have a pretty streamlined system. If a tenant has an issue, they email our maintenance request email, we send it to our contractors, and they perform the repair.

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Brian Pulaski

Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

So what does the company make after the construction, line of credit and mortgages are paid off? That is the amount you should be drawing a paycheck from.

Also if you are not collecting a paycheck, you shouldn't be driving around in a fancy new vehicle (my opinion of course).

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Patrick M.

Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

Why the hell isn't your business paying for your truck?

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Amy H.

Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2017 · 295 posts · 229 votes

8y

@Joshua D.

Did you all discuss your plan and goals TOGETHER both short term and long term before you quit your job?

I would've hoped you all would be on the same page going into this. If you have 40 extra hours a week that you could spare at a W-2 then why not make extra money you can put towards real estate.

If you don't have extra time to spare, then you and her need to decide together what the next step should be. Read Miracle Morning if you don't think you have any spare time in your week.That book changed my outlook on how I structure my day and I have gained more productivity in my life. I think personally if you cash flow from real estate more than you made at your W-2 and you don't want to work/don't enjoy it, then don't go back to work.

I personally love my W-2, so my end goal isn't to quit my W-2.. so it all depends what your goal is!

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Dennis M.

Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes

8y

@Joshua D. Maybe look for a part time job as a realtor or start a little property management company on the side in your extra time . This way you bring in some income plus keep your business in real estate . You should help pay for some things with money you earned so she doesn’t feel used and exploited . It’s a tight rope to walk . I have a similar situation because my wife’s w2 pays much more than mine and I’m the saver of the family . Assure her your efforts will pay big later on in life when she quits her job , re is delayed gratification

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Terre B.

Aurora, CO · Member since 2018 · 180 posts · 166 votes

8y

Who decided that all the profits were to go back to the business? You? Or both of you?

I agree with the rest of the group, yes she has a right to her feelings. But you need to identify if the solution really is you getting a W-2 job, or if putting yourself on a salary will make things feel more equal, or if there is another underlying issue. If, out of $700 a week, she's paying taxes, your $477 truck payment, all the credit cards, $570 a month utilities (OUCH) and I'm sure cell phones, etc. it totally sounds like you need an accountant to advise you on what should be part of the business as an expense. I.E truck. Cell phone bill. Your gas for the truck. Etc, etc etc... You really aren't making $7000 a month if you are not expensing things properly.

Have you considered that she may hate her job as much as you did your old ones? I suggest you listen to her and do some serious restructuring or you may need to see that prenup thread on here. :-)

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Travis Henry

Investor · Camas, WA · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 91 votes

8y

@Joshua D. My wife and I were in a similar situation a few years ago, as she opened a private medical practice and I was handling all the "behind the scenes" aspects of running the business. The details are not important. What is important is talking to your wife about whether, as a couple and team, your BLUEPRINT matches your LIFE CONDITIONS.

Blueprint - How you think your life should be

Life Conditions - How your life actually is

This is a Tony Robbins concept that I've found helpful not only in marriage, but in business, as well. In short, there will always be tension if your blueprint doesn't match your life conditions. What needs to happen then is (again, as a couple), adjust your blueprint or adjust your life conditions. That's it. You might think your situation is unique and you might scoff at the fact that I'm making it so simplistic, but just think. Is solving this issue with your wife simple? Not easy, but simple?

BP = LC

Good luck!

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Andrew Neal

Real Estate Professional · Brentwood CA / Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 185 posts · 146 votes

8y

@Joshua D. I agree with a lot of the comments above. My wife stays home with our son and we live off of my income. I never once think about her as not contributing because I know the value she brings in taking care of our son far outweighs the money she used to bring in from corporate W-2 job. My guess is she feels like you sit around and don't "work as hard" as she does and maybe you do or maybe you don't I don't know your setup.

Biggest thing is creating a salary for yourself. I have had my own side business for almost 7 years (not in real estate) and always pay myself from it. Figure out a monthly number you're happy with. Feels good to write yourself a check each month from income you created.

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Tyler GibsonBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

8y

@Joshua D. Some of the other responses have touched on this but I figured I will pile on and re-enforce their thoughts.

You said the business nets $7000 a month but that it goes back into the business to pay mortgages, lines of credit, and construction costs. Sounds like the business does not net $7000. Net would be what you have left after you pay for everything. I could be misunderstanding and you are simply putting the money back in when you don't have to.

Someone already said it but I will repeat it. Find an accountant to help you figure out what expenses you have that the business could pay for. Specifically, your truck, fuel, cell phone, and working lunches if you have any of those.

If at all possible you want the revenue your business generates to pay for as many of your bills as it legally can. You are paying for expenses with before-tax money as opposed to having your wife's paycheck pay for the expenses with after-tax money. If at all possible you want to not pay for expenses with after-tax money.

Someone mentioned starting a property management business or realtor business and that is a great idea. It would allow you to continue to do the type of work you are loving and make some extra money that can pay for expenses with before-tax money.

Don't get me wrong I don't mind paying my taxes but I don't want to pay any more than I legally have to.

I started a photography business on top of my fulltime job and rental business not because I think I am going to quit my job or because I think I am going to make a fortune taking pictures of people but because I want to buy some awesome photography gear and I want to pay for it with before-tax money. I also can write off some of my homes square footage as a home office and if the photography business loses money (which it will on purpose for the first couple of years) I can write the loss off of my W-2 taxable income.

I am not saying that you need to go get a W-2 job but you should re-evaluate your business and what it is really making or paying for.

[email protected]407-590-9858

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Amanda G.

Rental Property Investor · Augusta, GA · Member since 2017 · 825 posts · 278 votes

8y

I highly recommend the book "Profit First" for making your business financials make sense. Depending on what the two of you want, it seems like you should be working towards getting her out of her W-2 job, along with getting a living wage for you out of the business. Check out the book, it is an easy read. I'd love to hear if you take that process on, like I have.

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David Zheng

Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes

8y

yeah I'm completely confused by your numbers as well. your debt obligation should be the first thing you calculate as a cost when figuring NOI. thought with those rents, you should still be pretty above water

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Mike Dymski

Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

8y

There's not much financially to fight about if (1) you are living off one paycheck and (2) you have a profitable real estate business. Well done. Keep it up and neither one of you will have to work a W-2 job.

As others have mentioned, start covering some of the family expenses with the real estate income.

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Angela Smith

Member since 2018 · 161 posts · 152 votes

8y

This is going to sound very harsh, but it needs to be said. What kind of husband is ok with this situation? Why do you think it's ok to contribute nothing at all to the household? Why are you perfectly content to have her paying for everything, including a truck payment, for crying out loud? If you are contributing nothing to the family, you should be selling that truck today, get yourself an old beater and get a j.o.b. Clearly your real estate is not replacing your income if it's paying you nothing. I question if this is really how your plan was supposed to play out. Half a million in debt and no income from you. You need to seriously listen to your wife's concerns. Otherwise you're going to find yourself suddenly single with a half a million in debt and no income. You may be living in that truck because you can't pay the truck payment and your own rent too.

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Joshua D.Pro Member

OP

Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 712 posts · 173 votes

8y

Thanks everyone for the responses. I could have plenty of income if wanted to but the way i see it and every big money maker ive heard is to stay cash broke. I put every penny back into are business buying more real estate and putting into stocks. The only difference i been telling her is the rich accumulate assets vs liabilities. Shes all about that because she has come from alot of money and i came from nothing. So im all about trying to make good financial decisions. Honestly one property pays my truck payment. Which also was the worst purchase ive ever bought. Thought would be nice compared to my $1,000 toyotas and now i have a $30,000 chevy. Nice for a week after that no big deal. Also she has a fantastic cake job for her dad she gets to leave whenever she wants and has her own schedule really gets payed crazy money for it too. I was in a bad spot in my life with work and i started this and went balls to the wall at every angle and it blew up i feel like. I mean the numbers alone i think show that. Anyways anymore questions i can answer? Also not taking anything harsh. Say how you guys feel, I appreciate the input. @Angela Smith @Mike Dymski @David Zheng @Amanda G.@Tyler Gibson @Andrew Neal @Travis Henry @Terre B.@Dennis M. @Amy H. @Patrick M. @Brian Pulaski @Jim K. @Mike Cumbie

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Terre B.

Aurora, CO · Member since 2018 · 180 posts · 166 votes

8y

Ok just an fyi? $700 a week" and "crazy money" are a looooooonnnngggg way apart. People here pay that for child care. Something here isnt adding up.

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Joshua D.Pro Member

OP

Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 712 posts · 173 votes

8y

@Terre B. Big bonuses

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Russ SmithPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 70 votes

8y

If your wife is unhappy about having to work for "the man" and grind away at an office job she hates, then let her quit her job and assist you with your real estate endeavors.

Or, let her leave her job and pursue another position, maybe in an entirely different field, one that will make her happy. Even if it's less money, it will be worth it.

You're making enough cashflow to help pay the bills, even if you feel like it's slowing your ability to grow.

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Travis Henry

Investor · Camas, WA · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 91 votes

8y

@Joshua D. 'Good' financial decisions that ruin your marriage may not be good decisions. The best course of action might be to reflect and re-evaluate what's really important here.

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Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

8y

Pull out all your dead equity, reinvest it all into more properties and tell your wife she can retire.

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Joshua D.Pro Member

OP

Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 712 posts · 173 votes

8y

@Thomas S. Really? Feel nervous doing that? I have $250 in available lines of credit bank cut me off. But if all goes well in February they will see where im at and at that point should have 4-5 properties that i havent leveraged against. Which should be in the value of around 300-400k.

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Joshua D.Pro Member

OP

Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 712 posts · 173 votes

8y

@Joshua D. Also 50k in roth ira and other cash and stuff

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Dennis M.

Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes

8y

All this marital talk aside Your doing an excellent job josh. Keep it going bro

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Help my wife and I solve this FIGHT. Should I get a W-2 job?

Help my wife and I solve this FIGHT. Should I get a W-2 job?

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