Driving for dollars, found a possible flip...

Driving for dollars, found a possible flip...

Derreck WellsPro Member
Specialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 544 posts · 269 votes

Hey all,

I was riding the motorcycle today (getting in every minute I can before the cold gets here) and came across an abandoned property. I must have driven past this house hundreds of times in the last few years, but never noticed it until today. 

I stopped and knocked on the door, no answer. Read the note from the city that the water was shut off a couple of weeks ago for non-payment. Total owed about $500. Went around to the front door, fought through the trees, brush, and thorns to knock on that one; no answer. You literally can't see the front of the house from the street 10 feet away, the brush is so thick. 

Walked around the house and entered through the open bulkhead into the basement and took a self guided tour. Looks like the house has been vacant for many years, no real water damage, but horsehair plaster is falling in some places from temp changes. The kitchen and a greenhouse were added as an addition on a  slab and is destroyed. Roof gone (hole right through), walls rotted, etc. That section would be a total demo/rebuild. The main structure is solid, it's just the addition that needs to go. 

I spoke to the neighbor and she told me the house has been vacant and the addition was covered with a tarp for the 4 years she's been living there. It was tarped before she moved in. The tarp is shredded and dangling in strings from years of exposure with no maintenance. 

So, I got home and looked it up on the assessors database. The listed owner is the one on the letter from the town. The address on the letter is to a mailboxes etc in MA. I searched the name and found the owners obituary. I dug a bit deeper and found his wife's obituary a year later. Both listed as owners in the assessors database. Both obits were from Maine. An intellius search confirms that they lived at all three addresses, the house in NH, the mailbox in MA and the house in Maine. It also points me at a daughter that has been married twice and lives in a different city in MA. 

Knowns:

  • Both listed owners died 8-9 years ago.
  • They bought the house in 1971, last mortgage I could find was discharged in 2002.
  • The property has been vacant at least 4 years.
  • Property needs about $75,000-$100,000 worth of work (if I hired it out, I can do it much less myself). Will be valued about $250,000 when done. 
  • It's currently a 4 bed, 1 bath, no kitchen house. (Would add a bath with the kitchen build) sitting on about a quarter acre in a desirable southern NH town.
  • The town filed a lis pendens and has a $5000 lien on the house from 2011 over a removal of collapse room off the kitchen. That would be when they tarped it. (Court paperwork lists the owners as "(deceased)". 

Unknowns:

  • Why hasn't the daughter claimed ownership? Didn't she get the memo? Mail not forwarding from the mailbox due to not keeping up with the payment?
  • How far into back taxes is the house? ($3000 per year) I found a tax lien from 2005 for $2000. 
  • Is the property stuck in probate? (For 9 years? Seems impossible, but I have no experience with it.)

Basically, I'm not sure how to get this property into my possession. Should I try the daughter? Maybe she did rent it out till the roof went, then just let it rot, but never actually transferred the deed? Figured she'd wash her hands of it and let the town have it. Since it's not in her name, maybe I leave her out of it completely? Should I go to the town? Is there a way I could get the to give it to me to save them the expense of dealing with it? Is there a way they can sell it to me if not outright give it to me?

I'm open to suggestions. This would make a great winter flip for me. I'd like to get it. I'm going to the town hall tomorrow and see what else I can dig up. I didn't stop there today because I was in my bike gear, didn't look very professional. ;)

Thanks for your suggestions. 

Derreck

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  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2015 · 172 posts · 30 votes
    10y

    Wow... not really able to help you at this point, but I think you should continue to pursue it until you find the answers you are looking for. Could be a great opportunity for you. Very interested in seeing what happens next! Good luck...

  • Investor · MA · Member since 2014 · 164 posts · 114 votes
    10y

    @Derreck Wells

    Good luck looking forward to hearing how it goes. The town hall should have a suggestion for you.

  • Consultant · Ball Ground, GA · Member since 2015 · 228 posts · 100 votes
    10y

    Talk to the daughter.  You never know what kind of issues she has been dealing with and you could be the answer to her problem which is the house.   If the owners are deceased then she could be the best bet to make this happen.   She lost her Mom and Dad within a year and this could be her way to closure.  Best of luck and keep us posted.

    Joe

  • Tolland, CT · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    Derreck - It sounds like driving for dollars lead you to a potential great find.   You clearly have done a great amount of research and know the property very well.

    I agree with Joe, the daughter is the key.  Tax Acquired Property laws in New Hampshire are usually auctions which would drive the price of the house up especially if this is in the Seabrook to Portsmouth area - very desirable area.

    Good luck and let us all know how it turned out.

    Dave

  • Nashua, NH · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 0 votes
    10y

    good luck, I'll be following up to see how it goes!

  • Investor · west seneca, NY · Member since 2014 · 376 posts · 211 votes
    10y

    hi derrick. what you have here is what i think is a gem. not only could you get this place cheap, but you get the challenge of finding who you buy it from. success with both gives you double the satisfaction. i dealt with a similar deal. first, you found the daughter.  so you have your lead. if the town has a lein on it, so be it, but if they have not foreclosed on it, its not them that you deal with at this moment, its her. you need to call her right away.  there is a very very strong chance that she will not want to even deal with it. she probably has long ago forgotten about it and will not want to deal with it. first, you have to find out if she is the only heir. if she is, great, if not, you need to deal with all the heirs. dealing with one is easier. second, talk her into giving it to you if she does not want it. offer her some money just to sign off it. get a quit claim deed and get her to sign it with a copy of the parents death certificates. next, call the town, find out how much in back taxes is owed, how many liens are owed, etc. this will be your leverage to get the daughter to just give it to you. 

    as long as the town has not foreclosed on it for back liens, you will deal with her. if the town has foreclosed, then you deal with them and not her. this sounds like a house i would jump all over, derrick. don't let this one slip away from you. good luck

  • Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Approach methodically. determine:

    Property

    Equity

    Title

    Interest(s) 

    Opportunity

    Then reverse engineer

  • Derreck WellsPro Member
    OP
    Specialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 544 posts · 269 votes
    10y

    Okay, so yesterday I went to town hall and spoke to the tax collector. It appears there's somewhere in the vicinity of $20,000 in liens for the cleanup, taxes, and sewer. Possibly a little left on a mortgage, but the bank hasn't filed for anything, so it may have been discharged and they didn't update the records. The mortgage was set to discharge in '09, and it started at $52,000 in '89, so there can't be much there if it still exists.

    She told me that the daughter has paid some taxes. (So now I know the daughter is aware of the house.) She said when she talked to the daughter this past spring, she mentioned wanting to just sell the house and be done with the headache. Tax collector is going to call the daughter and give her my name and number. 

    Looking at the numbers for negotiations I'm going to estimate $30,000 in liens/back taxes. (I'd rather assume high and be pleasantly surprised when it comes in lower.)

    • Liens: $30,000
    • Rehab: $100,000
    • Holding costs: $6,000

    It looks like I'm looking at $136,000 before any amount the daughter wants, so that leaves maybe $4,000 to offer to her. If I'm all in at $140,000 and sell it for $200,000 for a quick sale, that's $60,000 to split between me and a money investor (yet to be found).

    I'll keep you posted as this develops.

    Derreck

  • Lake Worth, FL · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    how did all this work out so far

  • Lake Worth, FL · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    have you gotten a hold of the daughter and closed the deal 

  • Danbury, NH · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 21 votes
    9y

    @Derreck Wells Any update on this? Thanks!

  • Flipper · Plainfield, IL · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    Wow, nothing worse than to read all of this, and have it end in limbo... OP any updates??

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