GET RICH! (or die trying?!) SHORT TERM FURNISHED RENTALS - A discussion

GET RICH! (or die trying?!) SHORT TERM FURNISHED RENTALS - A discussion

J. MartinPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

I have been speaking with short-term furnished rental owners who rent to workers or other travelers, and operate near national parks like Yosemite, in urban areas like Oakland and San Francisco, the desert and coastal communities like Palm Springs and Venice Beach..

THE COMMON THREAD IS THAT THEY TEND TO PULL IN 2-3 TIMES THE GROSS RENTS OF AN UNFURNISHED LONG-TERM RENTAL

I WOULD LIKE TO BRING TOGETHER AND HEAR FROM THE SHORT TERM RENTAL BP COMMUNITY ABOUT THEIR IDEAS, WHAT THEY ARE DOING/OPERATING, WHAT THEY ARE CONSIDERING BUYING OR OPERATING, AND ANY AND ALL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SHORT TERM RENTALS.

From vacation rentals w/ bikes and toys, to super-high-end corporate rentals for tech employees in Silicon Valley, to families near the lake, medical students or workers on rotation, and oil field workers who need a home away from home...

THERE IS A NEED FOR ALTERNATIVE FORMS OF HOUSING FOR NICHE TYPES OF WORKERS AND TRAVELERS ALL OVER THE US AND THE WORLD.

I have seen apartments, hippie trailers, house boats, towering castles, spectacular lofts, tiny homes, dirty couches, teepees, yurts, and impeccable $2MM+ homes and estates.

I've personally stayed on VRBO type places in a boat on the canals of Amsterdam, a castle in overlooking the Rhine River in Germany (on the way to Oktoberfest ;) , an old apartment overlooking Al Duomo in Florence, and w/ a wonderful couple in a Rome apartment with cathedral ceilings on a busy alley a stroll from the Vatican. I think high-cost metro areas (and or tech/liberal) like San Francisco, New York, Austin, Portland, Seattle, and many more would be good targets...

PRICING ABOVE ANY NORMAL LONG-TERM RENTAL, BUT GENERALLY BELOW AN EQUIVALENT HOTEL RATE CAN CREATE SIGNIFICANT ADDITIONAL INCOME FROM THE PROPERTY.

BUT ISN'T THIS TOO MUCH WORK??

It's all about systems:  ****TIPS*****

1) Set up the space right, and get everything you need - 3 sets of all linens, iron & ironing board, hair dryer, extras of stuff for them..
2) Have a thorough ad, that answers all questions, w/ FAQ. Have prepared PDF's/ emails w/ local things to do, options from airport, entering unit, etc..
3) Use keypads and lockboxes - so you don't have to be there!!!
4) Find a local cleaner. Ask neighbors. Message other AirB&B hosts. Having someone local or already coming out saves everyone money!

BUT AREN'T THERE A LOT OF COSTS?

There are very few fees for AirBnB. I have not tried VRBO .com yet or any other sites. You charge the guest the cleaning fee. You just need to replace linens occasionally, plus the cost of set-up.

I WOULD LIKE TO BRING TOGETHER AND HEAR FROM THE SHORT TERM RENTAL BP COMMUNITY ABOUT THEIR IDEAS, WHAT THEY ARE DOING/OPERATING, WHAT THEY ARE CONSIDERING BUYING OR OPERATING, AND ANY AND ALL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SHORT TERM RENTALS.

I'm not selling anything, or doing any seminars or coaching regarding this. I just think there's a lot of opportunity in this sector. I'm also not advocating people dive into this w/o due diligence. But I see big potential opportunities.

I have 2 short-term rentals now. One on AirB&B w/ about a 5 day average stay approaching $10/sqft/mo during heavy traffic (w/o kitchen or living room), and a short-term furnished rental to international students earning a good return, as a test.

What are you doing? Considering a master lease to operate short-term rentals? Leasing out a trailer or extra bedroom? Planning a short-term rental community or business? Let's hear it!!!

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Engineer · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 121 posts · 76 votes
12y

I've been tracking three markets for vacation rentals since August; Mammoth Lakes, Temescal in Oakland, and the area surrounding Dolores Park in San Francisco.

One of my favorite graphs is vacancy rates. Temescal and Dolores Park track each other pretty well. Mammoth isn't doing too well with vacancy rates around 85%. 

Price per night is flat in Temescal, while being more volatile in Dolores Park and Mammoth. 

There is very little churn, or growth in the three markets. Churn is when hosts leave airbnb, and growth is new listings. Rather than show the graph for growth/churn for the last couple months, this is growth/churn for Q3 with a line fitted. 

Temescal and Dolores Park are growing faster than expected, while Mammoth is down. Bay Area growth could be attributed to the Dream Force conference, Mammoth's decline could be operators quitting after a dry summer with many fires. 

Where this data gets really useful is calculating gross rents. Looking at the average vacancy rate and average nightly rate, we can estimate gross rents. 

From talking to people about rental prices, the Temescal gross rents are higher than long term rents, while the Dolores Park gross rent is around the price of long term rentals. 

Let me know if you have any questions! 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Involved In Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 14 votes
    12y

    I was very successful with my 1st vacation rental purchase in San Diego that I decided to go out and buy a 2nd vacation rental investment in Big Bear, CA.  I grossed over $125,000 in rents for my 1st vacation rental purchase and know that I would only be able to get about $60,000 in rents as an unfurnished property.  I'm getting ready to start a podcast on vacation rental investments throughout the world.  How well have you vacation rental investments done for you?  Rents for the year?  Cost to purchase in your area?  

  • Englewood, CO · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    I used the Air B&B service myself and was real pleased. 1 of my units I'm going to be moving into may be vacant for the 3 months until I move in. I was thinking of doing this myself.

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Definitely following! If we move back east I am VERY interested in this model. Haven't tried it yet because Central Valley were we lived doesn't have the transient population to fit the criteria.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    One thing I considered with a recently vacant apartment was a short term furnished rental.  I looked into rental companies for furnishing because I was only planning it for the short term. It was reasonable and I could get the furnishings from a reasonable distance at a decent cost. I would consider it again in that situation.  I don't think  I would add rental furniture to long term furnished units because the furniture takes a lot of wear and tear in my experience.  For long term furnished rental I am a fan of consignment shops.  Good furnishings at a reasonable cost and you can't beat them for housewares.

    You have to know your market in any case and it is a different market then your long term rentals. And it is at least in our area all about location.

  • Investor · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2014 · 207 posts · 190 votes
    12y

    J, I think it is a great idea.  I was thinking to do something similar in San Jose/Santa Clara, I just need to find a 2/2 condo in a decent location.  I think there is a good market for business traveler, temp housing for relocation or corporate housing.

  • Engineer · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 121 posts · 76 votes
    12y

    I've been tracking three markets for vacation rentals since August; Mammoth Lakes, Temescal in Oakland, and the area surrounding Dolores Park in San Francisco.

    One of my favorite graphs is vacancy rates. Temescal and Dolores Park track each other pretty well. Mammoth isn't doing too well with vacancy rates around 85%. 

    Price per night is flat in Temescal, while being more volatile in Dolores Park and Mammoth. 

    There is very little churn, or growth in the three markets. Churn is when hosts leave airbnb, and growth is new listings. Rather than show the graph for growth/churn for the last couple months, this is growth/churn for Q3 with a line fitted. 

    Temescal and Dolores Park are growing faster than expected, while Mammoth is down. Bay Area growth could be attributed to the Dream Force conference, Mammoth's decline could be operators quitting after a dry summer with many fires. 

    Where this data gets really useful is calculating gross rents. Looking at the average vacancy rate and average nightly rate, we can estimate gross rents. 

    From talking to people about rental prices, the Temescal gross rents are higher than long term rents, while the Dolores Park gross rent is around the price of long term rentals. 

    Let me know if you have any questions! 

  • Involved In Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 14 votes
    12y

    @Evan R. What price ranges were you looking at in those 3 areas?  What area are you leaning towards after all your research?  Do you have some good case studies of vacation rental investors in those 3 areas?  Always looking to find another vacation rental in another area.  Thanks!

  • Engineer · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 121 posts · 76 votes
    12y

    @George You I've been looking at all 'entire home' listings, no shared apartments.  

    I don't have any case studies from the researched areas. In my experience, airbnb operators are very cagey about sharing details. My theory is many urban operators are in violation of HOA regs, or their lease. 

    Do you have Vacation Rental experience in San Diego?

  • Investor · Bentonville, AR · Member since 2014 · 114 posts · 40 votes
    12y

    That's a lot of detail @Evan R. Just curious: how/where did you find the info (I'm interested in other areas)?

  • Engineer · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 121 posts · 76 votes
    12y

    @Kent Verge Spreadsheets for days. What areas are you interested in?

  • Involved In Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 14 votes
    12y

    @Evan R. - Yes, I have vacation rental experience in San Diego.  I own 1 vacation rental in Mission Beach, San Diego and also manage 75 vacation rentals down here in Mission Beach, Pacific Beach, La Jolla, and Del Mar.  

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @George You:

    @Evan R. What price ranges were you looking at in those 3 areas?  What area are you leaning towards after all your research?  Do you have some good case studies of vacation rental investors in those 3 areas?  Always looking to find another vacation rental in another area.  Thanks!

    Evan R! You are the man! When are we going to meet in person?

    Anecdotally, browsing through the listings, and being familiar with the Temescal area, many of them tend to be small "cottages"/in laws, small (older) apartments, etc. I think that has a lot to do with the price point. It has restaurant sizzle and cool hippy dippy gardens with chickens in the backyard, but not the tourist demand of downtown Oakland, SF, or other areas..

    I'm a bit surprised Delores Park doesn't get better numbers relative to long-term rents, but part of it might be that Delores Park also doesn't have the same tourist pull, or rent control stuff... People LOVE going there, but are they going to base their entire SF trip out of the Mission? Or Union Square/Powell/SOMA? I have a feeling the relative value of Delores is higher for a local than a tourist relative to other locations. There is also an incentive for owners to rent short-term to not get stuck in rent-control. Also, there may be several sub-leasers in Delores Park that are paying below-market rents, and just recouping some of that money (aka. not full-blown control and market motivation).

    Oct Nov Dec are peak months in San Francisco. I learned this when I was calling around to hotels for blocks of rooms while scheduling for my Summit on Nov 15 & 16 at SFSU. I took the opportunity to ask them about demand/occupancy and pricing throughout the year in downtown SF, and the event planner said by far the occupancy and pricing is highest in these few months. Partially due to lots of corporate events, the biggest being Salesforce/Dreamforce in Oct - in addition to good weather at this time of year.

    I have a friend who rented out a ROOM in a SHARED apartment in SOMA for $275/night during Dreamforce, so pricing during events is big. I imagine you could probably get $1K/night or so for a modern 2br/2ba apt near Moscone during big events... Or way more.. There aren't even hotels available by the time the event comes, so cost becomes no matter - and the money these people have are ridiculous. I wouldn't even feel bad charging them $2k+/night if the market would bear it. Corporate expense accounts, and required travel for people in this space..

    Evan, I would be interested to see what places around Moscone do for Q4! Although, isn't the vacancy always suppressed by whatever time the owner personally has blocked off on their calendar? e.g., The owner that has 2 months blocked off on the calendar for personal use is also counted for the highest amount of income? (0% vacancy). Just curious.. I LOVE what you're doing there with the data! Thanks for sharing!

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @George You:

    I was very successful with my 1st vacation rental purchase in San Diego that I decided to go out and buy a 2nd vacation rental investment in Big Bear, CA.  I grossed over $125,000 in rents for my 1st vacation rental purchase and know that I would only be able to get about $60,000 in rents as an unfurnished property.  I'm getting ready to start a podcast on vacation rental investments throughout the world.  How well have you vacation rental investments done for you?  Rents for the year?  Cost to purchase in your area?  

     George,

    On average, how much of that $125K in rents for 1st vacation rental go to bottom line? How much do you charge for property management? And what is the structure? (Pay fixed rate to owner? Split revenues?) I'm just curious what's going on out there.. And your numbers hit the 2X rents for unfurnished long-term lease, which seems to be about what I hear..

    Can you post a link for where your vacation rental podcast is going to be? Or the name of it? That's awesome! Always interested in learning from others about this space!

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 13 votes
    11y

    Wow, I love this thread. I have owned a rentals in Mammoth for 20 years. My experience has been that no money was made renting due to HOAs, management company(mine currently takes 51%) and rents only coming in Dec-Aug. I did make huge returns when I sold my first place in 2006. I bought again in 2009 after the crash. Long term I think you can make money in appreciation but only make money with rentals if you can manage them yourself. They also have high transient bed taxes and the city filed bankruptcy a few years ago. I don't think the city allows SFR to be rented for less than a month. Having said all that, I love this mountain and love spending time there when I can. I live in San Diego with 2 long term rentals. My girlfriend does AirBNB and does quite well so George's success doesn't surprise me. I am looking forward to that podcast!

    Pam

  • Engineer · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 121 posts · 76 votes
    11y

    Mammoth was really interesting when I visited during the summer. 

    There were flyers trying to garner support against VR on cork boards. Think 3rd degree photocopies from a hand written letter. 

    I also saw homes for sale where the property could only be used as a second home. No idea how they'd enforce this.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    couple data points on Dolores park area. 

    1- I highly doubt average long term rents are anywhere near $6700. Thats a good average for airbnb though. Most airbnb rentals run the gamut from sofa surfing to a full blown house. Only a SFH or large and nice 3/2+ condo,would rent form over$6700 long term. And, if you factor in rent control, the actual median rent in DP is way under $6700. Bottom line: if you can average $6700 with airbnb for a 1-2BR, you are making bank!

    2- Mission district actually gets a sh!t ton of tourists. Try walking Valencia on a weekend; its a cornucopia of European languages. Regular tour buses on 24th st. hitting the murals. I think every adventurous boomer and hipster is tuned into staying in the mish!

  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 115 posts · 75 votes
    11y

    OK, I finally got a chance to chime in.  I started with one unit two years ago and was pretty easy to manage since it was an apartment attached to my house. It was so easy that I became ambitious and acquired a few more, a total of 7 units. Although I'd say we're doing really well, but the fact of the matter is, running vacation rentals is like having kids. Having one could probably be quite easy and really enjoyable. But once you have more than 2 and each is going thru different stages in their lives, say: 2 babies, 3 toddlers, 2 teenagers you are faced with challenges. I have great cleaners, or so I thought until we found some dirty linens on the bed that was supposedly for an arriving guest. Good thing that the 'guest' happened to be us. Otherwise it could have been a disaster, namely: bad review.

    But it is possible to make really great profits especially if you could have a great handyman who is on call for every little question the guest might have (why is the wifi not working? answer: it's your laptop, reboot. Where are the washer/dryer? It's right there, in the W/D closet. Is the icemaker broken? No, the ice melted a bit. Just take out the thing out of the freezer. Is the bathroom light not working? It is, it has a dimmer on it! - that sort of thing).

    I think the ideal thing is if you have a condo or condos in a condo building where all the floor plans are the same, the appliances are the same, cable channels are the same, etc. I know someone who has this kind of condo in Kona, Hawaii. So she actually has a property manager who lives on site, in that condo building.

    Even if you could manage all the logistics really well, there is still this 'guest factor'. You just don't know what kind of guests you would end up having, no matter how well you screen or how many house rules you have. They may smoke inside your unit, invite their friends and family to have dinner at 'their' place, etc., etc.

    Didn't mean to discourage anyone, but just wanted to give a sense of reality. We're still doing really well, but are now thinking about downsizing, possibly down to 3 units.

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Amit M.:

    couple data points on Dolores park area. 

    1- I highly doubt average long term rents are anywhere near $6700. Thats a good average for airbnb though. Most airbnb rentals run the gamut from sofa surfing to a full blown house. Only a SFH or large and nice 3/2+ condo,would rent form over$6700 long term. And, if you factor in rent control, the actual median rent in DP is way under $6700. Bottom line: if you can average $6700 with airbnb for a 1-2BR, you are making bank!

    2- Mission district actually gets a sh!t ton of tourists. Try walking Valencia on a weekend; its a cornucopia of European languages. Regular tour buses on 24th st. hitting the murals. I think every adventurous boomer and hipster is tuned into staying in the mish!

    Amit, I was just going off @Evan's statement that the short-term & long-term rents were about the same, but shoulda looked at the numbers! $6k+/mo not too shabby, especially w/o rent control.

    2) I agree there are multiple sh*ts tons of tourists rolling through the Mission. On a weekend. On tour busses. Murals. Day/night. Enjoying sunshine in the park. I just think that something nearer downtown is going to kill it more on AirB&B - because of what I think is higher demand for both tourists and business travelers for SO many things. Like maybe doing $6,700 in a week during peak w/ a well-placed, modern 2/1 apt. I'd rather live in the Mission. All those adventurous boomers and hipsters would too. But alas, the corporate expense accounts and rich European & Asian shoppers trump the hipster/yuppie cash IMHO for this particular purpose..

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    OK, I finally got a chance to chime in.  I started with one unit two years ago and was pretty easy to manage since it was an apartment attached to my house. It was so easy that I became ambitious and acquired a few more, a total of 7 units. Although I'd say we're doing really well, but the fact of the matter is, running vacation rentals is like having kids. Having one could probably be quite easy and really enjoyable. But once you have more than 2 and each is going thru different stages in their lives, say: 2 babies, 3 toddlers, 2 teenagers you are faced with challenges. I have great cleaners, or so I thought until we found some dirty linens on the bed that was supposedly for an arriving guest. Good thing that the 'guest' happened to be us. Otherwise it could have been a disaster, namely: bad review.

    But it is possible to make really great profits especially if you could have a great handyman who is on call for every little question the guest might have (why is the wifi not working? answer: it's your laptop, reboot. Where are the washer/dryer? It's right there, in the W/D closet. Is the icemaker broken? No, the ice melted a bit. Just take out the thing out of the freezer. Is the bathroom light not working? It is, it has a dimmer on it! - that sort of thing).

    I think the ideal thing is if you have a condo or condos in a condo building where all the floor plans are the same, the appliances are the same, cable channels are the same, etc. I know someone who has this kind of condo in Kona, Hawaii. So she actually has a property manager who lives on site, in that condo building.

    Even if you could manage all the logistics really well, there is still this 'guest factor'. You just don't know what kind of guests you would end up having, no matter how well you screen or how many house rules you have. They may smoke inside your unit, invite their friends and family to have dinner at 'their' place, etc., etc.

    Didn't mean to discourage anyone, but just wanted to give a sense of reality. We're still doing really well, but are now thinking about downsizing, possibly down to 3 units.

     Thank you SO much for sharing. It definitely is more work. And that has to be hammered out. I feel like we're in this stage of managing AirB&B rentals where...

    THERE'S GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!!!

    First, before you sell, consider what kind of income you'd like to see on it to not handle it at all, and let's talk about a master lease where you kick back and collect rents from some young sucker who might be willing to take care of everything ;)

    Also, have you tried that service in SF that does some type of "all-in" management for airb&b units..?

    Also, ELF is looking for high-end places to rent to corporate folk, and can pay you fair market w/ no mgmt. fee, or split upside w/ them if you pay for/have furniture that suits the needs.. Just another option.. (talk to me first though ;)

  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 115 posts · 75 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @J Martin

     Thank you SO much for sharing. It definitely is more work. And that has to be hammered out. I feel like we're in this stage of managing AirB&B rentals where...

    THERE'S GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!!!

    First, before you sell, consider what kind of income you'd like to see on it to not handle it at all, and let's talk about a master lease where you kick back and collect rents from some young sucker who might be willing to take care of everything ;)

    Also, have you tried that service in SF that does some type of "all-in" management for airb&b units..?

    Also, ELF is looking for high-end places to rent to corporate folk, and can pay you fair market w/ no mgmt. fee, or split upside w/ them if you pay for/have furniture that suits the needs.. Just another option.. (talk to me first)

    Actually, I was in Montreal recently and rented an airbnb condo. The hosts do this professionally - there are 4 of them, renting 24 properties that they manage and rent short term. Looks like they take turn a few days a week and that's really their day job, meaning they do sit in front of their computer all day and respond to guests questions, inquiries, etc. THAT, could definitely work. In fact, I was doing this much more easily when I had a day job :). But I quit my job so we could travel and that turned out to be a challenge for now. 

    And no, we're not selling, at least not in the next few years. But yeah, there's got to be a better way. HOWEVER, in SF you have more challenges than just managing. There is a city policy as well, that makes it tricky to run more than one unit. And this applies to those management companies as well. I'm sure there will be creative ways to handle this, so we'll see how this will all play out. 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @J. Martin  I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if DT would attract even more people, as airbnb's in the mission are almost always booked up solid. Tourists but also tech workers like it here, possibly more than DT. Now if you're talking about outer sunset or Daley city, then yes, that will be harder to fill up. 

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Amit M.:

    @J. Martin  I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if DT would attract even more people, as airbnb's in the mission are almost always booked up solid. Tourists but also tech workers like it here, possibly more than DT. Now if you're talking about outer sunset or Daley city, then yes, that will be harder to fill up. 

     I'm not talking about # of people for occupancy. I'm talking about price point & pricing power for corporate expense accounts vs yuppies.

    I agree with you there will be lots of people in either..

    "2) I agree there are multiple sh*ts tons of tourists rolling through the Mission. On a weekend. On tour busses. Murals. Day/night. Enjoying sunshine in the park. I just think that something nearer downtown is going to kill it more on AirB&B - because of what I think is higher demand for both tourists and business travelers for SO many things."

    But I think you can "gouge" the corporate expense conference crowd and rich international travelers way more..

    "Like maybe doing $6,700 in a week during peak w/ a well-placed, modern 2/1 apt. I'd rather live in the Mission. All those adventurous boomers and hipsters would too. But alas, the corporate expense accounts and rich European & Asian shoppers trump the hipster/yuppie cash IMHO for this particular purpose.."

    I think you would have more nights over $1,000/nt, more nights over $600/nt, more nights over $400/nt near Moscone than near Dolores. Just IMHO..

    I agree Daly City, Sunset, all that is like a different foggy world and wouldn't work! lol *Lived in Sunset for >5 years*

  • J. MartinPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @J Martin

     Thank you SO much for sharing. It definitely is more work. And that has to be hammered out. I feel like we're in this stage of managing AirB&B rentals where...

    THERE'S GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!!!

    First, before you sell, consider what kind of income you'd like to see on it to not handle it at all, and let's talk about a master lease where you kick back and collect rents from some young sucker who might be willing to take care of everything ;)

    Also, have you tried that service in SF that does some type of "all-in" management for airb&b units..?

    Also, ELF is looking for high-end places to rent to corporate folk, and can pay you fair market w/ no mgmt. fee, or split upside w/ them if you pay for/have furniture that suits the needs.. Just another option.. (talk to me first)

    Actually, I was in Montreal recently and rented an airbnb condo. The hosts do this professionally - there are 4 of them, renting 24 properties that they manage and rent short term. Looks like they take turn a few days a week and that's really their day job, meaning they do sit in front of their computer all day and respond to guests questions, inquiries, etc. THAT, could definitely work. In fact, I was doing this much more easily when I had a day job :). But I quit my job so we could travel and that turned out to be a challenge for now. 

    And no, we're not selling, at least not in the next few years. But yeah, there's got to be a better way. HOWEVER, in SF you have more challenges than just managing. There is a city policy as well, that makes it tricky to run more than one unit. And this applies to those management companies as well. I'm sure there will be creative ways to handle this, so we'll see how this will all play out. 

     Good for you for asking the hosts what the situation was. Thanks for sharing. This is the kind of stuff I'm trying to tell @Kathryn M. to do. She thinks I'm crazy asking strangers questions! lol

    So they all make enough extra gravy off the rental income to not work? I like the sound of that! Way to enjoy life and start traveling, even if it makes the AirB&B a bit more tedious.. My new goal may be to find

    "THAT BETTER WAY"

  • Real estate investor · Las Vegas · Member since 2013 · 798 posts · 171 votes
    11y

    Other things to consider:

    -More people to deal with

    -More empty times to fill (weekly and daily is a job if someone else isnt doing it)

    -More overhead (purchase, furnishings, cleaning, cable, utilities, insurance, etc)

    Some place the amount you can make makes it worth it.

  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 115 posts · 75 votes
    11y

    So they all make enough extra gravy off the rental income to not work? I like the sound of that! Way to enjoy life and start traveling, even if it makes the AirB&B a bit more tedious.. My new goal may be to find

    "THAT BETTER WAY"

    Yes, those 4 peeps (2 couples, actually), make enough to make 'ends meet', as they love to say it here in SF. My beef with this kind of business, from an owner's/neighbor's perspectives, is that in order for them to make enough, they pack in as many guests as they could. The condo that I rented for me and hubby was a 2-bed, 2-bath, about 1,150sqf. They listed maximum occupancy for 13 people!

    My flat, with the same size, only accommodates up to 4 people and I prefer to have 2 people. More guests = more $$, however that also equals to more wear and tear, and definitely more noise and neighborhood disturbance that I'm trying to avoid at all costs. 

    And to @Kathryn M., I ask strangers questions all the time :) How else would you learn otherwise? Oh I guess I search online lots, but  nothing beats getting answers from strangers LOL

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