Los Angeles - Detached ADU conversion - 150 sq ft expansion for ingress/egress?

[Jasjaap Sidhu]

I'm looking into converting a detached garage on my property into an ADU. I see on LA County guidelines and CA HCD guidelines that, when converting a detached accessory structure into an ADU, the structure can be expanded by up to 150 sq ft in order to accommodate ingress/egress.

Does anyone have experience with using the 150 sq feet rule? I'm wondering what am I allowed to do with the 150 square feet besides ingress/egress.

For example: Can I add 150 square feet to the structure, including an exterior door, and then use the extra 150 square feet for a kitchenette? Or is it restricted entirely to ingress/egress, i.e., I add 150 square feet and put in an exterior door, but I can't use the 150 square feet for kitchenette, laundry, etc.?

[Dan H.]

Quote from @Jasjaap Sidhu:

I'm looking into converting a detached garage on my property into an ADU. I see on LA County guidelines and CA HCD guidelines that, when converting a detached accessory structure into an ADU, the structure can be expanded by up to 150 sq ft in order to accommodate ingress/egress.

Does anyone have experience with using the 150 sq feet rule? I'm wondering what am I allowed to do with the 150 square feet besides ingress/egress.

For example: Can I add 150 square feet to the structure, including an exterior door, and then use the extra 150 square feet for a kitchenette? Or is it restricted entirely to ingress/egress, i.e., I add 150 square feet and put in an exterior door, but I can't use the 150 square feet for kitchenette, laundry, etc.?

I am of the belief that the 150' only applies to a JADU. Assuming i am correct, it does not apply to a garage being converted to an ADU.

If you are asking about a JADU, the 150’ is to be used ingress/egress only   You cannot use it to push out a kitchen (except possibly if you placed a door there).

JADU have even worse valuations than the poor ADU valuations due to the owner occupancy requirement for renting. Unless you never plan to sell, do not add a JADU. Best value at selling is to remove the JADU due to poor auction the result of mostly needing a house hacker In addition, if you already have a regularSDU (which would be primary reason to add JADU over an ADU), the property by rule does not qualify for conventional financing. JADU is even worse re investment than an ADU.

In general ADU additions in single family zones are not decent RE investments. If you are building for usage by friends, family, yourself the return is not the primary intent and they serve the intended purpose.

Here are some reasons ADU additions in single family zoned areas are typically a poor RE investment:

1) The value added by the ADU addition is often significantly less than the cost of adding the ADU. Search the BP for ADU appraisals to encounter numerous examples. This creates a negative initial position. This negative position can consume years of cash flow to recover. Make sure you know the value the ADU will add to the property before building the ADU.
2) the financing on an ADU is typically far worse than for initial investment property acquisition or is often not leveraged (HELOC, cash out refi, etc). Leverage magnifies return.
3) The effort involved in adding an ADU is comparable or larger than a rehab associated with a BRRRR. However if I do a BRRRR I can achieve infinite return by extracting all of my investment. Due to item 1, adding an ADU can require years to start achieving any return (once the accumulated cash flow recovers the initial negative position).
4) Adding an ADU is a slow process. It can take a year or more to complete an ADU. During this time you are not generating any return from the money invested in the ADU. This amounts to lost opportunity because if you had purchased RE, at the closing it can start producing return.
5) ADUs detract from the existing structure whether this is privacy, a garage, or just yard space.
6) this is related to number 1, but there are many more buyers looking to purchase homes for their family than there are RE investors looking to purchase small unit count properties. This may affect value or time required to sell.
7) Adding an ADU does not make the property a duplex. For example in many jurisdictions I can STR units in a duplex but cannot STR an ADU (some jurisdictions will let you STR if you owner occupy). Duplex have different zoning that may permit additional units. Duplex can always add additional units via the ADU laws.
8) Related to number 1, purchasing a property with an existing ADU is cheaper than buying a property and adding an ADU. Why add an ADU if it can be purchased cheaper?
9) adding multiple ADUs or adding an ADU to a quad looses F/F conventional financing. This reduces exit options and affects the value.
10) Small number of small units is the most expensive residential development there is. This implies residential units can be built at lower costs and provide better return.
11) adding an ADU to SFH can make the SFH fall under rent control.

Good luck.

[Jasjaap Sidhu]

Quote from @Dan H.:

I am of the belief that the 150' only applies to a JADU. Assuming i am correct, it does not apply to a garage being converted to an ADU.

If you are asking about a JADU, the 150’ is to be used ingress/egress only   You cannot use it to push out a kitchen (except possibly if you placed a door there).

 Thanks for the response!  The state legislation (SB 13) and the local guidelines both expressly distinguish between ADUs and JADUs and state that the 150’ applies to both of them, not just JADUs (“The accessory dwelling unit or junior accessory dwelling unit . . . may include an expansion of not more than 150 square feet”).  So, I think I am set there.

As for including a kitchennette in the 150’—you mentioned that could “possibly” be allowed if I “placed a door there.”  That would be the plan: the 150’ would have a door leading to the yard, and there would be a kitchenette in the 150’.  I’m trying to figure out if I’m allowed to do that.  

[Dan H.]

Quote from @Jasjaap Sidhu:

Quote from @Dan H.:

I am of the belief that the 150' only applies to a JADU. Assuming i am correct, it does not apply to a garage being converted to an ADU.

If you are asking about a JADU, the 150’ is to be used ingress/egress only   You cannot use it to push out a kitchen (except possibly if you placed a door there).

 Thanks for the response!  The state legislation (SB 13) and the local guidelines both expressly distinguish between ADUs and JADUs and state that the 150’ applies to both of them, not just JADUs (“The accessory dwelling unit or junior accessory dwelling unit . . . may include an expansion of not more than 150 square feet”).  So, I think I am set there.

As for including a kitchennette in the 150’—you mentioned that could “possibly” be allowed if I “placed a door there.”  That would be the plan: the 150’ would have a door leading to the yard, and there would be a kitchenette in the 150’.  I’m trying to figure out if I’m allowed to do that.  

 That provision is in a section that has alternate sections.   In the case you selected that text from, the existing unit does not meet the setback requirements of another section.  

So I amend my original response that the 150' max expansion applies for a JADU or an ADU built into existing structure that does not meet the ADU setback requirements. It does not apply in the general case where ADU setback requirements are met.

Does your existing garage meet the minimum setback requirements?  If not, the 150’ expansion applies.  I believe a subsequent bill allows more than 150’ even when setbacks are not satisfied if the footprint is not enlarged (such as adding a second story).

There are a lot of ADU laws. Every year they add a few. In total, they are hard to keep all the info for someone who s not working this full time.

Good luck

[Jasjaap Sidhu]

Quote from @Dan H.:

So I amend my original response that the 150' max expansion applies for a JADU or an ADU built into existing structure that does not meet the ADU setback requirements. It does not apply in the general case where ADU setback requirements are met.

Does your existing garage meet the minimum setback requirements?  If not, the 150’ expansion applies.

Correct, my existing garage does not meet the minimum 4’ setback requirements.  So, I am allowed to do the 150’ expansion, as long as it accommodates ingress/egress.  So I would expand and make sure I include a door to the outside in the expansion.  But I would also like to fill that extra 150’ with a kitchenette, if possible, rather than leave it empty.  And that’s what I’m trying to figure out—whether I can use that space for a kitchenette or not.