To LLC or not to LLC

To LLC or not to LLC

Beaverton, OR · Member since 2017 · 37 posts · 21 votes

Sorry for bringing up this topic again.
After going through multiple post on this topic, If I summarize, some people are saying that it is necessary to have it under LLC and some don't. I understand that everyone's scenario is different and hence, different opinions. So, let me be specific on the scenario.

Scenario:
1. First investment property using living trust

2. Loan has the individual (couple) names and not the living trust.

3. Listing on airbnb like sites.

4. Has umbrella insurance.

5. Has STR insurance.

Facts / questions collected from different opinions expressed on this forum:

1. Putting property in LLC when one has loan, is either not possible or will raise red flags with the loan company. Right?
2. If the property is in individual’s name and then if you want, you can create LLC to register with OTA websites like Airbnb, you can still do it. 
3. Tax: If you have a single member LLC, you will still be filing it as part of your 1040. Hence tax bracket remains the same??
4. Tax: You can show expenses for rental property both in LLC and in your individual tax filing. 
5. Protection: If someone has an accident on your property and wants to sue, they can see who owns the property. In this case, a living trust. 
6. Protection: tenants can sue the individuals who listed the property on OTA and the property management company if they are listed as co host. 
5. Depending on which state you have created an LLC and which state is your property in, you may have no privacy in your identity or may have complete privacy. 

What else am I missing?

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John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
2y

You do not need an LLC for one property that is also mortgaged, has insurance and has an umbrella policy to boot.

See this reply in the discussion

13 Replies

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    2y

    You do not need an LLC for one property that is also mortgaged, has insurance and has an umbrella policy to boot.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y

    What @John Underwood said. There is zero need for you to be concerned about this....at this point anyway....

  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y

    You are attempting to kill a fly with a sledge hammer. I agree with John. 

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    I have to agree with my compatriots @Amit Shukla. At this stage, you don't have to go to all that trouble.

    LLC's are great for protecting you against contract issues. LLC's can protect to some degree when it comes to negligence on your part.

    If you fail to fix a step on the deck stairs and someone breaks a leg. They can sue you and get by the LLC.

    The best bet is have good insurance with the umbrella like you stated.

  • Beaverton, OR · Member since 2017 · 37 posts · 21 votes
    2y

    Thank you! That is what I was thinking and wanted to summarize it here for the rest of the folks.

  • Andrew SteffensBusiness Member
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Agree with above, for liability purposes you do not need an LLC. The only other aspect to consider would be tax reasons, and for that you should ask a CPA to see if you have any benefit there. Most likely for 1 property it will be negligible.

  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Yep, BP is beyond back and further on this topic and unfortunately a lot if it is wildly inaccurate! I would suggest taking a bit of time and go through some educational videos on Anderson Business Advisors YouTube channel, as well as Clint Coons channel. I don't even have my personal home out in the wide open for everyone to know what I own! If you're dealing with people, it's best to be simplified but smart. I could answer all your questions but just check out the YouTube channels, it's all on there as well. One day you may thank yourself for taking the time to learn from an attorney! 

  • Nate MeekerBusiness Member
    Real Estate CPA | California · Member since 2020 · 543 posts · 251 votes
    2y

    @Amit Shukla - Not necessary, but many do just to sound cool ;)

    Not that I recommend it, but I have old school investors who are in their 70s with over 20 properties and not one in an LLC... think of all the filing fees and time they have saved by not doing so.

    The CPA Realtor 569 Reviews
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nate Meeker:

    @Amit Shukla - Not necessary, but many do just to sound cool ;)

    Not that I recommend it, but I have old school investors who are in their 70s with over 20 properties and not one in an LLC... think of all the filing fees and time they have saved by not doing so.


    Right. And in a state like California, the State wants their $800 per year. For each entity. It can add up.....

  • Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 187 votes
    2y

    As @Sarah Kensinger said, "Yep, BP is beyond back and further on this topic and unfortunately a lot if it is wildly inaccurate!". This is true about almost any strategy on BP. lol

    Since there is a lot of back and forth advice, I pay close attention to whom is posting what and look for trends, ie, where in their real estate journey is the person who's sharing their opinion? Is their journey the strategy I am wanting to implement?
    Those two questions help me filter through the random, and sometimes contradictory, opinions here, and elsewhere for that matter.

    What I have found, as a general rule, is the people that are in the planning stages, ie, they don't actually own anything, are the one's pushing LLCs and "asset protection plans" that border on the insane. (Analysis Paralysis maybe?) Their understanding of real estate is typically limited to what some youtube influencer has said on the subject. 

    Most of the posts in this thread are by people that own a substantial amount of property and are successful at what they do, probably not as flashy (I don't know any of them IRL) as YT influencers, but they are where I want to get to. Personally I would (and have for a couple of them) ask for their opinion and would take that to the bank. 

    It goes back to the idea to “Never take advice from someone you wouldn’t trade places with.” -Darren Hardy (per Google). 

    The best advice on being a YT influencer would be from a YT influencer. The best advice on real estate strategies, is from people that are already where I want to get to. Not to say I don't consider all advice, everyone had to start somewhere, but the advice from someone that is " where I want to get to" is the advice I'll lean on heavily. Also not to say every YT'er is only an influencer, but it can be hard sometimes to tell if they are legit or just really good marketers.

    @Amit Shukla I realize you already summarized this, but hope this is helpful to anyone reading through this thread. 

  • Sarah KensingerPro Member
    Real Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Richard Elvin:

    As @Sarah Kensinger said, "Yep, BP is beyond back and further on this topic and unfortunately a lot if it is wildly inaccurate!". This is true about almost any strategy on BP. lol

    Since there is a lot of back and forth advice, I pay close attention to whom is posting what and look for trends, ie, where in their real estate journey is the person who's sharing their opinion? Is their journey the strategy I am wanting to implement?
    Those two questions help me filter through the random, and sometimes contradictory, opinions here, and elsewhere for that matter.

    What I have found, as a general rule, is the people that are in the planning stages, ie, they don't actually own anything, are the one's pushing LLCs and "asset protection plans" that border on the insane. (Analysis Paralysis maybe?) Their understanding of real estate is typically limited to what some youtube influencer has said on the subject. 

    Most of the posts in this thread are by people that own a substantial amount of property and are successful at what they do, probably not as flashy (I don't know any of them IRL) as YT influencers, but they are where I want to get to. Personally I would (and have for a couple of them) ask for their opinion and would take that to the bank. 

    It goes back to the idea to “Never take advice from someone you wouldn’t trade places with.” -Darren Hardy (per Google). 

    The best advice on being a YT influencer would be from a YT influencer. The best advice on real estate strategies, is from people that are already where I want to get to. Not to say I don't consider all advice, everyone had to start somewhere, but the advice from someone that is " where I want to get to" is the advice I'll lean on heavily. Also not to say every YT'er is only an influencer, but it can be hard sometimes to tell if they are legit or just really good marketers.

    @Amit Shukla I realize you already summarized this, but hope this is helpful to anyone reading through this thread. 

    That's what I love about Anderson Business Advisors....major real estate investors that are attorneys, helping start-up or well-established real estate investors. They have been a huge benefit to us and a great asset to have on hand!
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
    Quote from @Richard Elvin:

    As @Sarah Kensinger said, "Yep, BP is beyond back and further on this topic and unfortunately a lot if it is wildly inaccurate!". This is true about almost any strategy on BP. lol

    Since there is a lot of back and forth advice, I pay close attention to whom is posting what and look for trends, ie, where in their real estate journey is the person who's sharing their opinion? Is their journey the strategy I am wanting to implement?
    Those two questions help me filter through the random, and sometimes contradictory, opinions here, and elsewhere for that matter.

    What I have found, as a general rule, is the people that are in the planning stages, ie, they don't actually own anything, are the one's pushing LLCs and "asset protection plans" that border on the insane. (Analysis Paralysis maybe?) Their understanding of real estate is typically limited to what some youtube influencer has said on the subject. 

    Most of the posts in this thread are by people that own a substantial amount of property and are successful at what they do, probably not as flashy (I don't know any of them IRL) as YT influencers, but they are where I want to get to. Personally I would (and have for a couple of them) ask for their opinion and would take that to the bank. 

    It goes back to the idea to “Never take advice from someone you wouldn’t trade places with.” -Darren Hardy (per Google). 

    The best advice on being a YT influencer would be from a YT influencer. The best advice on real estate strategies, is from people that are already where I want to get to. Not to say I don't consider all advice, everyone had to start somewhere, but the advice from someone that is " where I want to get to" is the advice I'll lean on heavily. Also not to say every YT'er is only an influencer, but it can be hard sometimes to tell if they are legit or just really good marketers.

    @Amit Shukla I realize you already summarized this, but hope this is helpful to anyone reading through this thread. 

    That's what I love about Anderson Business Advisors....major real estate investors that are attorneys, helping start-up or well-established real estate investors. They have been a huge benefit to us and a great asset to have on hand!

     Anderson Advisors know there stuff.

    I have a Wyoming LLC that owns a trust that owns an property in TN.

    It's as protected as it can be but probably way overkill.

  • Member since 2023 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    2y

    One thing not on your list. If you do the scenario you are talking about it could be difficult to 1031 exchange in the future. The replacement property title will need to be in the same LLC name but a lot of lenders will not lend to an LLC. So you will have to find a lender that will work with an LLC.

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