Seeking advice on my PNW Vacation Market research
Rental Property Investor · Maple Valley, WA · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 5 votes
Seeking advice on my PNW Vacation Market research
Most Popular Reply
Michael BaumPro Member
Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votesHey @Michael Dinwiddie, welcome to the forum. I am not invested in any of these areas, but I have been to all of them, most more than once. I am contemplating taking over my mother in laws home (she passed in 2021) if my brother in law decides it is too much for him to handle. That is in Longbeach.
Ashford is a neat little town, but I don't see it being profitable for most of the year. The road to Paradise is closed pretty much after Oct so that negates visitors. Grove of the Patriarchs is closed until further notice. Stevens Canyon rd is often closed right now. Plus properties are pretty expensive for a shack. If you can find one.
Port Angeles - Crime ridden right now. I wouldn't buy there at all. Californians have really moved in up on the peninsula and are making life quite difficult for natives who don't drive 85 miles an hour in a 35. My folks live in Sequim. Maybe consider Port Townsend. Very expensive but could be OK.
Pac Beach/Moclips - There are several performing vacation rentals there. I talked with a lady who runs one there and she does OK. Should get decent occupancy year round. Insurance could be a problem depending on the flood zone. I would expect to pay in the 800's for something on the beach.
Rockaway Beach OR - Much more touristy than Moclips. Gets a lot of visitors. There are STR restrictions here and there so you have to really study the maps and call the city. Gets a lot of visitors for the whale watching and beach of course. Beach front is well over a million. Beach view 600-900k. Meh.
Long Beach WA - I have been here a bunch. Lots of things to do in town, it is a big beach of course. Lots of visitors from late spring to late summer. It does get visitors during the winter as well. The ocean is a draw in the winter. Waves crashing in, raining, cold...what's not to like! :) Seriously lots of beach goer's in the winter. IMHO, you need to be west of Pac Coast hwy. There isn't a ton for sale right now, but you would be looking at 600-1m for a decent place.
Lake Cushman/Hoodsport - This is a tough one. I like the area, but many of the homes on the lake itself are leasehold. Always a mistake IMHO. The feds/state can yank that lease whenever they want. Then you have to bid to buy the place you once "owned". Too much risk. Hoodsport itself has almost nothing for sale. You can see what's up and down the canal. But don't hold your breath. Finding a waterfront place will be over 1m.
So, there ya go. I am not big on investing here in WA. What about Ocean Shores? Closer than Longbeach to Seattle. Maybe Seaview OR? Both are very touristy, but tourists mean guests which mean occupancy which means $$$.
18 Replies
- Residential Real Estate Broker · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 1 vote4y
Hi Michael!
I'm a licensed agent in Washington and new real estate investor..I have been looking into similar locations you have listed above. I'll share what I have learned in the markets I have researched.
Ashford--this area has really picked up speed with STRs and there is a community in Ashford (Paradise Estates) that is investor friendly has several STRs. The summer months are extremely busy but still has significant bookings in the winter due to all of the winter activities near Mt. Rainier. This is my #1 pick personally for trying to find a STR.
Long Beach has strict rental restrictions for STRs so you would want to make sure you are looking for a homes within the right zoning. Here is a link to the County's site with the restrictions. Pacific County STR Rules
- 4yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Hey @Michael Dinwiddie, welcome to the forum. I am not invested in any of these areas, but I have been to all of them, most more than once. I am contemplating taking over my mother in laws home (she passed in 2021) if my brother in law decides it is too much for him to handle. That is in Longbeach.
Ashford is a neat little town, but I don't see it being profitable for most of the year. The road to Paradise is closed pretty much after Oct so that negates visitors. Grove of the Patriarchs is closed until further notice. Stevens Canyon rd is often closed right now. Plus properties are pretty expensive for a shack. If you can find one.
Port Angeles - Crime ridden right now. I wouldn't buy there at all. Californians have really moved in up on the peninsula and are making life quite difficult for natives who don't drive 85 miles an hour in a 35. My folks live in Sequim. Maybe consider Port Townsend. Very expensive but could be OK.
Pac Beach/Moclips - There are several performing vacation rentals there. I talked with a lady who runs one there and she does OK. Should get decent occupancy year round. Insurance could be a problem depending on the flood zone. I would expect to pay in the 800's for something on the beach.
Rockaway Beach OR - Much more touristy than Moclips. Gets a lot of visitors. There are STR restrictions here and there so you have to really study the maps and call the city. Gets a lot of visitors for the whale watching and beach of course. Beach front is well over a million. Beach view 600-900k. Meh.
Long Beach WA - I have been here a bunch. Lots of things to do in town, it is a big beach of course. Lots of visitors from late spring to late summer. It does get visitors during the winter as well. The ocean is a draw in the winter. Waves crashing in, raining, cold...what's not to like! :) Seriously lots of beach goer's in the winter. IMHO, you need to be west of Pac Coast hwy. There isn't a ton for sale right now, but you would be looking at 600-1m for a decent place.
Lake Cushman/Hoodsport - This is a tough one. I like the area, but many of the homes on the lake itself are leasehold. Always a mistake IMHO. The feds/state can yank that lease whenever they want. Then you have to bid to buy the place you once "owned". Too much risk. Hoodsport itself has almost nothing for sale. You can see what's up and down the canal. But don't hold your breath. Finding a waterfront place will be over 1m.
So, there ya go. I am not big on investing here in WA. What about Ocean Shores? Closer than Longbeach to Seattle. Maybe Seaview OR? Both are very touristy, but tourists mean guests which mean occupancy which means $$$.
Hi Michael!
I'm specializing in short term rentals out in WA. I think @Michael Baum summed up the different areas pretty nicely. If you're looking for any help with the analysis / property management side of things, please feel free to reach out :) I pay for the US data for AirDNA, so I'm happy to assist there.
Cheers!
- Real Estate Broker · Seattle, WA · Member since 2018 · 46 posts · 75 votes4y
Ashford has some of the strongest Airbnb occupancy rates in the state, and lower average purchase prices than many other mountain markets, although prices are going up as this quiet town gains more local and national awareness.
Packwood is a popular cabin / vacation town, close to one of the entrances to Mt Ranier & White Pass Ski Resort. There's great Airbnb traffic there, with average ROI as high or higher than almost anywhere else in WA. Because Packwood has Gigabit internet (Seriously, as fast or faster than the internet in Seattle!) it's also becoming a popular destination for remote & nomadic workers. Packwood, like many cabin markets, is appreciating rapidly, and I think it's a good place for Airbnb investors. There's currently no significant or restrictive Airbnb regulations, and as the town is in unincorporated Lewis County any future regulations would have to come at the county level – something that county commissioners have not expressed an interest in doing so far. I sold a Cabin in Packwood to an Airbnb investor client a couple months ago, and their project is turning out great.
Another area i've been excited about are the the towns along highway 2 heading towards Stevens Pass (Gold bar, Index, Baring, Grotto and Skykomish). I personally own a STR in Gold bar and know a few other investors who own STRs that are performing great.
The biggest challenge i've experienced with owning a STR in more of a remote location is sourcing contractors, cleaners, property management etc.. You can still find people but it can be a bit difficult compared to sourcing people in the greater Seattle area. Hope this helps! - 4yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
hey @Daniel Nobile, where are you getting your data? I have mined some data from both AirBNB and VRBO and it does have decent occupancy, but certainly not huge. Not many are over 50% occupancy for the year, which isn't bad, but I am curious about your statement.
thanks!
- Real Estate Broker · Seattle, WA · Member since 2018 · 46 posts · 75 votes4y
Hey @Michael Baum I mainly source data for STRs from Mashvisor. Airdna seems relatively accurate also, within 20% i'd say. Average occupancy rates for Ashford & Packwood are around 60-68%. These rates vary depending on a lot of variables but the comps are pretty strong for the most part. Feel free to dm me if you want to chat some more!
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
check out Puget Island Cathlamet River frontage no hotels to compete with very few STR and only 90 miles to PDX
price points lower there is a cute A frame with 100 ft of river frontage and a dock into the columbia on the market now for 615k 3 bd 2 ba upgraded
will sleep 8 easy and will bring 300 plus a night.. with literally zero competition . 301 W sunnysands check it out. PS this one I believe is fully furnished and is included in price.
- Investor · Austin TX · Member since 2018 · 151 posts · 165 votes4y
When looking at Airbnb markets, I think it's important to consider what you're really looking for in terms of a property:
1. Do you want a place to go stay at yourself and be able to rent it out while you're not there?
2. Do you want it to be a pure "investment property" and not really looking to stay there?
Once you decide this, it will help narrow down your parameters. For example, if you go with option 1, you might not be as concerned with low occupancy, because you'll be able to go there whenever you want! If however, you go with Option 2, occupancy and ADRs are much more important.
Hope this is helpful and please reach out with any questions or concerns!
Cheers!
- Real Estate Agent · Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2018 · 56 posts · 29 votes4y
The others have summed up the areas you are looking well. I would say that like Long Beach, Ocean shores has very few areas that are zoned for STR. I have a couple STR and one is out by Pacific beach (not in Seabrook) it does well. My advice is to not only look at the statics, but also think about what will separate your property from the rest in the area you choose. That is the key to bookings as well as nightly price. I'm a licensed Realtor in WA and have helped others find STR investments. If you want to talk more in detail, give me a call (425)466-4092.
Best Wishes,
Amanda Dallman
- 4yAbbie LittlePro MemberResidential Real Estate Broker · Port Townsend, WA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 2 votes
Port Townsend limits STR inside the city limits so it's pretty much a no-go. I would look into the actual crime statistics of Port Angeles as my take as a PT native is it's pretty mellow compared to metro areas. It's affordable and a great jumping off place to those exploring the Olympics, Coast or heading to Victoria.
- 4yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Hey @Abbie Little, my brother lives there and my parents live in Sequim so I am basing my opinion on their experiences. In the big picture of things, I am sure it isn't like Seattle. I thought I would see what the actual rates were and it is pretty high.
https://www.neighborhoodscout....
It isn't as bad as Seattle, but it isn't far off statistically.
- 4yAbbie LittlePro MemberResidential Real Estate Broker · Port Townsend, WA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 2 votes
@Michael Baum:
Thanks for sharing. Actual data is helpful and more accurate than my gut feel. 😉
- 4yAbbie LittlePro MemberResidential Real Estate Broker · Port Townsend, WA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 2 votes
- 4yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
You are welcome @Abbie Little. I have used neighborhoodscout.com for basic research on areas. It is just raw statistics so always taken with a grain of salt.
I was looking at a place on Crescent Lake CA. It was a nice lake front property but the crime stats were off the charts. One of the worst places for property crimes in the USA.
But locals reported that the areas with the worst crimes were out of the area a bit. Good to have local knowledge.
- Realtor · Bellevue, WA · Member since 2019 · 882 posts · 1k+ votes4y
@Michael Dinwiddie, others summed things up pretty well!
Make sure to put regulations at the top of the list! Some cities/counties have very restrict STR regulations!
Hi folks,
My wife and I are looking to purchase a vacation cabin in Packwood not for use as an Airbnb. We have been keeping our eyes and ears out there for the past year. For anyone that is looking at developing or purchasing an STR in Packwood, WA I would take a peek at the numbers that are on the rental sites and the amount of bookings. Currently we are seeing STR owners posting for sale due to reduction in prices they can get per night and the vacancy rate increasing. The Packwood, WA market may be officially saturated on STR's. Also 4th quarter of last year Packwood and county officially did discuss potentially regulating STR's by either limiting numbers or adding a tax to cover increases in local services that are needed.
- Real Estate Agent · Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2018 · 56 posts · 29 votes2y
Awing.com places Packwood 9th on the top places to own STR in Washington. I think we will be seeing a lot of STR come on the market this year. Insurance rates and tax increase combined with lower nightly bookings is making it tougher to get them to float, it's also chewing down on proffits. Im advising client who want to buy vacation rentals to have a padded bank account because the income stream is not as reliable as it once was.
@Amanda Dallman I agree with your thoughts and am already noticing the start of that in Packwood, WA. There are a ton of STR listings, more than half the town. Folks bought them thinking they were going to rent out every night and got mortgages based on those numbers and are now having a rough time, especially with the lack of snow this year we've had, which is the major draw for the area. Prices are still reflecting the inflated prices folks were paying for these STR's but they are slowly coming down. There are already a number of STR listings on the MLS which have reduced prices since listing and these owners are likely going to be sad when they can't get the money back out they paid. I'm hearing from the realtors in the area more are in talks to list. If interest rates stay high I'm suspecting lower listings prices and higher inventory due to the STR's not being as great of an investment as folks thought.
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