Private company is saying my property is vacant and trespassing
Member since 2018 · 35 posts · 8 votes
Hey everyone,
so I had a tenant that I had to evict. They left a horrible mess behind with trash and unwanted belongings. We threw everything out and have been cleaning up the property. Recently a private company has been breaking and entering my property. Leaving notes saying that the property is vacant, stealing some of cleaning equipment, and even changed one of the locks on a back door. They even left a notice saying something about the mortgage servicer. Doesn’t make sense because the house is fully owned by me… no mortgage. I have no clue what they’re doing and will probably get attorneys involved plus trespass them. Just wondering if anyone knows why they’re doing this, what they’re trying to achieve, and why they feel they can just break in?
Thanks!
Sounds like it is time for cameras and the police..............all the best!
Sounds like it is time for cameras and the police..............all the best!
@Bjorn Ahlblad definitely, already have the cameras coming in
@Kian Tajadod this could be title theft, which is very serious. Title theft means someone may have taken ownership of the property from you or you were illegally sold the property. You probably need to hire an attorney.
Call the company and explain you are the owner. See what claim they believe they have on the property.
When did you buy the property? Did you pay cash or finance it? Did you use a title company to close and get title insurance?
Where is the property located?
Do a quick title search. Some states allow people to reside in and take over a property if vacant for a period of time (I think there were a lot of attempts of this during the 2007-09 crisis in FL).
I would put no trespassing signs, install an alarm system (you can get a wireless cellular one like Simplisafe for $300) and report any breakins to the police as a break-in as well.
I would visit the register of deeds or call a title company and find out if there is any merit to the claims being made. Verify you are in fact the owner of record. Get the facts first and then you figure out a plan of action based on those facts. To many unknowns at this point.
@Kian Tajadod have your attorney send them a cease and desist order. Have a title company do a title search to make sure they haven’t tried to take over the title to your property. Call the cops to report the break ins and theft.
I had a similar situation occur after buying a property at a HOA foreclosure and it had nothing to do with title theft, which at best is a terrible misnomer.
I bought the property knowing there was a pending foreclosure of a first mortgage but which had not yet gone to judgment much less sale. The mtg servicer decided to be proactive and hired a property preservation company to enter the property, change the locks and that measures to "protect" the property from deterioration. When I found the locks changed I first called the sheriff's office and had some deputies meet me at the house. I explained I owned the house, showed a copy of my Certificate of Title and advised I wanted them to witness me removing the new locks and replacing them with my own. They agreed I was within my rights. After restoring possession I called the number of the servicer left behind by the preservation company and explained my belief they had hired a company to illegally break and enter my property and I had reported the matter to the authorities. I then called the foreclosure attorney for the lender and explained what his client's agent had done. He immediately contacted his client, confirmed what had happened and called me back to apologize and assured me his client was taking steps to ensure it didn't happen again.
Briefly on title theft, there is no such thing. Nobody, repeat nobody, can steal title to your property or encumber it with a mortgage that you will have to repay. The very worst that can happen is someone forges your signature on a deed and records it in the public records. Then some innocent comes along and 'buys" the property from the forger and receives a deed. Unfortunately for the "buyer" all (s)he received was a piece of paper that says "deed". No title came along with it since you didn't sign the "deed". Yes there will may some frustration in clearing the title cloud caused by the forged deed but, you did not and cannot have, lost title to the property.
I had a similar situation occur after buying a property at a HOA foreclosure and it had nothing to do with title theft, which at best is a terrible misnomer.
I bought the property knowing there was a pending foreclosure of a first mortgage but which had not yet gone to judgment much less sale. The mtg servicer decided to be proactive and hired a property preservation company to enter the property, change the locks and that measures to "protect" the property from deterioration. When I found the locks changed I first called the sheriff's office and had some deputies meet me at the house. I explained I owned the house, showed a copy of my Certificate of Title and advised I wanted them to witness me removing the new locks and replacing them with my own. They agreed I was within my rights. After restoring possession I called the number of the servicer left behind by the preservation company and explained my belief they had hired a company to illegally break and enter my property and I had reported the matter to the authorities. I then called the foreclosure attorney for the lender and explained what his client's agent had done. He immediately contacted his client, confirmed what had happened and called me back to apologize and assured me his client was taking steps to ensure it didn't happen again.
Briefly on title theft, there is no such thing. Nobody, repeat nobody, can steal title to your property or encumber it with a mortgage that you will have to repay. The very worst that can happen is someone forges your signature on a deed and records it in the public records. Then some innocent comes along and 'buys" the property from the forger and receives a deed. Unfortunately for the "buyer" all (s)he received was a piece of paper that says "deed". No title came along with it since you didn't sign the "deed". Yes there will may some frustration in clearing the title cloud caused by the forged deed but, you did not and cannot have, lost title to the property.
Maybe home title fraud is a better term, but it is sometimes referred to as title theft. (The DOJ refers to it as that in the below link. The FBI calls it house stealing). Whatever you want to call it, someone gains fraudulent title to your property through stealing your identity. They can then take a loan against the property or sell it. You are not stuck repaying the loan, but it can cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to fix this.
It is also possible that they are the victim of a stolen house scheme where they were sold a house that had a mortgage on it.
Hey everyone,
so I had a tenant that I had to evict. They left a horrible mess behind with trash and unwanted belongings. We threw everything out and have been cleaning up the property. Recently a private company has been breaking and entering my property. Leaving notes saying that the property is vacant, stealing some of cleaning equipment, and even changed one of the locks on a back door. They even left a notice saying something about the mortgage servicer. Doesn’t make sense because the house is fully owned by me… no mortgage. I have no clue what they’re doing and will probably get attorneys involved plus trespass them. Just wondering if anyone knows why they’re doing this, what they’re trying to achieve, and why they feel they can just break in?
Thanks!
Sometime back I had listened or read about people bragging about gaining title by adverse possession. Do you think that could be the attempt here?
Can you stay at the rental or get a security system? If you know who is entering, report them to the police. I'd also post no trespassing signs and talk to the neighbours. Give them your phone number, so they can contact you if they see someone at the house.
I had a similar situation occur after buying a property at a HOA foreclosure and it had nothing to do with title theft, which at best is a terrible misnomer.
I bought the property knowing there was a pending foreclosure of a first mortgage but which had not yet gone to judgment much less sale. The mtg servicer decided to be proactive and hired a property preservation company to enter the property, change the locks and that measures to "protect" the property from deterioration. When I found the locks changed I first called the sheriff's office and had some deputies meet me at the house. I explained I owned the house, showed a copy of my Certificate of Title and advised I wanted them to witness me removing the new locks and replacing them with my own. They agreed I was within my rights. After restoring possession I called the number of the servicer left behind by the preservation company and explained my belief they had hired a company to illegally break and enter my property and I had reported the matter to the authorities. I then called the foreclosure attorney for the lender and explained what his client's agent had done. He immediately contacted his client, confirmed what had happened and called me back to apologize and assured me his client was taking steps to ensure it didn't happen again.
Briefly on title theft, there is no such thing. Nobody, repeat nobody, can steal title to your property or encumber it with a mortgage that you will have to repay. The very worst that can happen is someone forges your signature on a deed and records it in the public records. Then some innocent comes along and 'buys" the property from the forger and receives a deed. Unfortunately for the "buyer" all (s)he received was a piece of paper that says "deed". No title came along with it since you didn't sign the "deed". Yes there will may some frustration in clearing the title cloud caused by the forged deed but, you did not and cannot have, lost title to the property.
Maybe home title fraud is a better term, but it is sometimes referred to as title theft. (The DOJ refers to it as that in the below link. The FBI calls it house stealing). Whatever you want to call it, someone gains fraudulent title to your property through stealing your identity. They can then take a loan against the property or sell it. You are not stuck repaying the loan, but it can cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to fix this.
It is also possible that they are the victim of a stolen house scheme where they were sold a house that had a mortgage on it.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archi...
https://www.justice.gov/usao-s...
The FBI can call it anything they want, it doesn't make it so. However, a careful reading of the FBI "story" revels this:
…After forging your signature and using the fake IDs, they file these deeds with the proper authorities, and lo and behold, your house is now THEIRS.* (please note the asterisk)
* - Since the paperwork is fraudulent, (I believe it should read "forged" since a fraudulently obtained deed or mortgage may, in some circumstances, be enforced) the house doesn’t legally belong to the con artists.
Based on that I think even the FBI agrees with my post that nobody can lose title to their property through a forged deed. Too bad they acknowledge it in a footnote rather than in the body of the "story".
At worst having your name forged on a deed or mortgage is an inconvenience, however I understand that to the uninformed and misinformed it can be frightening, a fear made worse by things like the FBI "story".
Having worked on many title insurance claims over thirty years that involved forged deeds and mortgages, and having consulted on even more, it's with some experience I can state that I have never seen someone lose title to real property or be forced to pay a mortgage they didn't create or benefit from, because of a forgery and I really wish the fairy tale would die a natural death. Unfortunately, the story sounds scary and so makes for good telling. Plus there are several companies that prey on this fear to sell what in my opinion is unneeded "protection" from this bogeyman.
Have you called the company that is doing this (???)
Maybe they simply have the wrong address for the work order (lock change, etc) 123 W 123rd st vs 132 W 132nd st sort of thing.
As for the stolen equipment, report it to the Police.
Hey everyone,
so I had a tenant that I had to evict. They left a horrible mess behind with trash and unwanted belongings. We threw everything out and have been cleaning up the property. Recently a private company has been breaking and entering my property. Leaving notes saying that the property is vacant, stealing some of cleaning equipment, and even changed one of the locks on a back door. They even left a notice saying something about the mortgage servicer. Doesn’t make sense because the house is fully owned by me… no mortgage. I have no clue what they’re doing and will probably get attorneys involved plus trespass them. Just wondering if anyone knows why they’re doing this, what they’re trying to achieve, and why they feel they can just break in?
Thanks!
Sometime back I had listened or read about people bragging about gaining title by adverse possession. Do you think that could be the attempt here?
Laws addressing adverse possession vary state by state of course but generally gaining title through adverse possession is difficult. Recently I have been reading stories about a group of "sovereign citizens" breaking into homes and claiming they own them as their ancestral home.
I had a similar situation occur after buying a property at a HOA foreclosure and it had nothing to do with title theft, which at best is a terrible misnomer.
I bought the property knowing there was a pending foreclosure of a first mortgage but which had not yet gone to judgment much less sale. The mtg servicer decided to be proactive and hired a property preservation company to enter the property, change the locks and that measures to "protect" the property from deterioration. When I found the locks changed I first called the sheriff's office and had some deputies meet me at the house. I explained I owned the house, showed a copy of my Certificate of Title and advised I wanted them to witness me removing the new locks and replacing them with my own. They agreed I was within my rights. After restoring possession I called the number of the servicer left behind by the preservation company and explained my belief they had hired a company to illegally break and enter my property and I had reported the matter to the authorities. I then called the foreclosure attorney for the lender and explained what his client's agent had done. He immediately contacted his client, confirmed what had happened and called me back to apologize and assured me his client was taking steps to ensure it didn't happen again.
Briefly on title theft, there is no such thing. Nobody, repeat nobody, can steal title to your property or encumber it with a mortgage that you will have to repay. The very worst that can happen is someone forges your signature on a deed and records it in the public records. Then some innocent comes along and 'buys" the property from the forger and receives a deed. Unfortunately for the "buyer" all (s)he received was a piece of paper that says "deed". No title came along with it since you didn't sign the "deed". Yes there will may some frustration in clearing the title cloud caused by the forged deed but, you did not and cannot have, lost title to the property.
Maybe home title fraud is a better term, but it is sometimes referred to as title theft. (The DOJ refers to it as that in the below link. The FBI calls it house stealing). Whatever you want to call it, someone gains fraudulent title to your property through stealing your identity. They can then take a loan against the property or sell it. You are not stuck repaying the loan, but it can cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to fix this.
It is also possible that they are the victim of a stolen house scheme where they were sold a house that had a mortgage on it.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archi...
https://www.justice.gov/usao-s...
The FBI can call it anything they want, it doesn't make it so. However, a careful reading of the FBI "story" revels this:
…After forging your signature and using the fake IDs, they file these deeds with the proper authorities, and lo and behold, your house is now THEIRS.* (please note the asterisk)
* - Since the paperwork is fraudulent, (I believe it should read "forged" since a fraudulently obtained deed or mortgage may, in some circumstances, be enforced) the house doesn’t legally belong to the con artists.
Based on that I think even the FBI agrees with my post that nobody can lose title to their property through a forged deed. Too bad they acknowledge it in a footnote rather than in the body of the "story".
At worst having your name forged on a deed or mortgage is an inconvenience, however I understand that to the uninformed and misinformed it can be frightening, a fear made worse by things like the FBI "story".
Having worked on many title insurance claims over thirty years that involved forged deeds and mortgages, and having consulted on even more, it's with some experience I can state that I have never seen someone lose title to real property or be forced to pay a mortgage they didn't create or benefit from, because of a forgery and I really wish the fairy tale would die a natural death. Unfortunately, the story sounds scary and so makes for good telling. Plus there are several companies that prey on this fear to sell what in my opinion is unneeded "protection" from this bogeyman.
Maybe I am uniformed and misinformed, haha thanks for enlightening me. I believe theft of anything, by definition, doesn't transfer legal ownership. Forging signatures to steal something is still theft. I also believe having something stolen, doesn't mean it can't be returned to the rightful owner. You seem to be hung up on terminology. I would argue it doesn't matter what you call it, but understanding the threat and how to deal with it is important.
In this situation it is one potential scenario. You seem to think it is unlikely and just an "inconvenience". Scour the internet and these types of crimes are real and do happen. I wasn't trying to spread fear or tell someone to buy a useless protection service. I was just offering a possibility of what happened here.
I had a similar situation occur after buying a property at a HOA foreclosure and it had nothing to do with title theft, which at best is a terrible misnomer.
I bought the property knowing there was a pending foreclosure of a first mortgage but which had not yet gone to judgment much less sale. The mtg servicer decided to be proactive and hired a property preservation company to enter the property, change the locks and that measures to "protect" the property from deterioration. When I found the locks changed I first called the sheriff's office and had some deputies meet me at the house. I explained I owned the house, showed a copy of my Certificate of Title and advised I wanted them to witness me removing the new locks and replacing them with my own. They agreed I was within my rights. After restoring possession I called the number of the servicer left behind by the preservation company and explained my belief they had hired a company to illegally break and enter my property and I had reported the matter to the authorities. I then called the foreclosure attorney for the lender and explained what his client's agent had done. He immediately contacted his client, confirmed what had happened and called me back to apologize and assured me his client was taking steps to ensure it didn't happen again.
Briefly on title theft, there is no such thing. Nobody, repeat nobody, can steal title to your property or encumber it with a mortgage that you will have to repay. The very worst that can happen is someone forges your signature on a deed and records it in the public records. Then some innocent comes along and 'buys" the property from the forger and receives a deed. Unfortunately for the "buyer" all (s)he received was a piece of paper that says "deed". No title came along with it since you didn't sign the "deed". Yes there will may some frustration in clearing the title cloud caused by the forged deed but, you did not and cannot have, lost title to the property.
Maybe home title fraud is a better term, but it is sometimes referred to as title theft. (The DOJ refers to it as that in the below link. The FBI calls it house stealing). Whatever you want to call it, someone gains fraudulent title to your property through stealing your identity. They can then take a loan against the property or sell it. You are not stuck repaying the loan, but it can cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to fix this.
It is also possible that they are the victim of a stolen house scheme where they were sold a house that had a mortgage on it.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archi...
https://www.justice.gov/usao-s...
The FBI can call it anything they want, it doesn't make it so. However, a careful reading of the FBI "story" revels this:
…After forging your signature and using the fake IDs, they file these deeds with the proper authorities, and lo and behold, your house is now THEIRS.* (please note the asterisk)
* - Since the paperwork is fraudulent, (I believe it should read "forged" since a fraudulently obtained deed or mortgage may, in some circumstances, be enforced) the house doesn’t legally belong to the con artists.
Based on that I think even the FBI agrees with my post that nobody can lose title to their property through a forged deed. Too bad they acknowledge it in a footnote rather than in the body of the "story".
At worst having your name forged on a deed or mortgage is an inconvenience, however I understand that to the uninformed and misinformed it can be frightening, a fear made worse by things like the FBI "story".
Having worked on many title insurance claims over thirty years that involved forged deeds and mortgages, and having consulted on even more, it's with some experience I can state that I have never seen someone lose title to real property or be forced to pay a mortgage they didn't create or benefit from, because of a forgery and I really wish the fairy tale would die a natural death. Unfortunately, the story sounds scary and so makes for good telling. Plus there are several companies that prey on this fear to sell what in my opinion is unneeded "protection" from this bogeyman.
Maybe I am uniformed and misinformed, haha thanks for enlightening me. I believe theft of anything, by definition, doesn't transfer legal ownership. Forging signatures to steal something is still theft. I also believe having something stolen, doesn't mean it can't be returned to the rightful owner. You seem to be hung up on terminology. I would argue it doesn't matter what you call it, but understanding the threat and how to deal with it is important.
In this situation it is one potential scenario. You seem to think it is unlikely and just an "inconvenience". Scour the internet and these types of crimes are real and do happen. I wasn't trying to spread fear or tell someone to buy a useless protection service. I was just offering a possibility of what happened here.
My observation the uninformed & misinformed was generic not personal, I don't know why you would take it as such. In fact, if it was aimed anywhere it was directed at the FBI for putting out that misleading and inaccurate story that clearly people are relying on for factual information.
I believe you're correct in your definition of theft but you appear to be confusing title with possession. I can steal your TV and have possession of it but I did not get title to it. Title to property is generally defined as the right to or ownership and enjoyment of, a specific thing. In the case of real property it is represented by a deed. Thus by the commonly understood sense of the word you cannot steal title to my property by forging my signature on a deed and I won't hold my breath waiting for someone to come up with a convincing rebuttal.
I don't consider myself hung up on terminology but I do, not to be trite, strive to say what I mean and mean what I say.
My opinion on the possibility and effect of home title theft, deed theft or whatever you choose to call is based on experience and not internet stories. I tend to give more weight to the former than the latter.