What is my responsibility if my tenants physically fight?

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What is my responsibility if my tenants physically fight?

Alyssa Lebetsamer
San Pedro, CA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 13 votes

Two of my tenants got into a bit of a brawl. It is hard to piece together what happened exactly because the stories don't match up, but it appears that Tenant A threatened/chased Tenant B's guests with a baseball bat after they rang her doorbell repeatedly at 2 AM (they had the wrong apartment), and then when an angry Tenant B confronted her, she yelled and screamed and hit him multiple times with her screen door. So Tenant B (who is male) pushed her and broke her security camera. Tenant A says Tenant B choked her and entered her apartment by force - Tenant B denies this. Police were called and a report filed, but no arrests were made. What is my role in all of this? I know the tenants both have a right the peace and quiet, and to feel safe in their homes. They sort of both crosses the line here. Both are presenting it to me like they are the victims. Any advice???

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Most Popular Reply

John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
5y

None. Police and courts to settle. 

10Reply
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21 Replies

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  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y

    None. Police and courts to settle. 

    10Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    from a male perspective always back away from a female and never ever hit a female unless your life it threatened.. one its not right and two you never going to win ..
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    6Reply
  • Terrell Garren
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    Sounds like you advertised at a WWE event. Seriously though, your screening process needs a facelift. 

    8Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    @Alyssa Lebetsamer

    This is some seriously trashy behavior. Start planning your exit strategy for both of them.

    5Reply
  • Alyssa Lebetsamer
    OP
    San Pedro, CA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 13 votes
    5y

    @Terrell Garren I inherited both of these tenants, unfortunately - they were here when I bought the building. I agree the behavior is unreal.

    1Reply
  • Alyssa Lebetsamer
    OP
    San Pedro, CA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 13 votes
    5y

    @Jim K. Yes, I think that is probably my best bet. 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2021 · 237 posts · 153 votes
    5y

    @Alyssa Lebetsamer

    If one is charged and convicted, evict for breach based off illegal behaviour & health/ safety for whoever is left. Until then, get familiar with legislation and get ready to evict based off whatever fits. Both of them. Drama doesn’t magically disappear.

    3Reply
  • Eron A.
    Member since 2018 · 88 posts · 43 votes
    5y
    Sounds like you need to just leave this alone. Its over. Just keep collecting rent, and leave them alone. Things like this happen. IMO, tenant b should have left it alone too. ....but sounds like tenant a might have some issues if shes chasing people w/bats. but she didnt do anything but chase. id sit her down and ask her about that....and then i would talk to tenant b and ask him why was the point of stepping to her. I would ask them if they have any gripes w/the other tenant and if they both say no....I would definitely let it go.
    1Reply
  • Ryan Zamora
    New to Real Estate · Albuquerque, NM · Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @Alyssa Lebetsamer

    Help,

    I am a currently full time in law enforcement looking to get into flips and buy and holds.

    From the LE side I would say get all police reports related to this incident, get all body camera footage, get the 911 dispatch recordings, get the 911 cad print outs, and a copy of any other evidence that may exist. Thoroughly review all of the information, take your own notes, and keep it in a file. If this leads to an eviction now or down the road you have created your own paper trail through due diligence. This will help you understand who was the “primary aggressor”, who stretched the truth, and will ultimately help you decide how to proceed right now and later.

    Some agencies, most, require you to IPRA the information you’ll be collecting. Should be as easy as getting the case # from dispatch then going online and filing a request for ALL records tested to that case #. Some departments might make it more difficult some may make it easier to obtain the info.

    Hope that helps!

    2Reply
  • Que Tran
    Real Estate Agent · Scranton PA · Member since 2019 · 93 posts · 98 votes
    5y

    Do not get involved. Call the police to write up a report.  Worst case, if it continues, evict both.

    2Reply
  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    Document what happened, make sure to record everything and let the police deal with it. If you don't have proof of what happened, it's hard to evict either, but it would be worth talking to an attorney about both. Either way, when their lease is up, I would not renew either even if you have to pay money to the tenants in a no-cause eviction in California as you do in Oregon.

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    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    5y

    I agree with others-let the police handle it.  As they are both inherited tenants, when their lease is up, I'd get both of them to move.

    0Reply
  • Todd Powell
    Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Alyssa Lebetsamer kind of went through this. We bought a 5 plex, and inherited unit 3 and unit 5 was vacant. We rehabbed unit 5 and found wonderful new tenants. Unit 3 was a black man who admittedly took medicine to help him mentally. All the tenants were afraid of him. One day I get a call from unit 5, 1 and 2, all telling me unit 3 beat up unit 5 so bad they got the police involved and the man you got beat up went to the hospital with several injuries. People wanted to move due to unit 3 and his erratic behavior. No one had any proof and each told a different version. After a little investigation, unit 3 went off on my telling me he could have cut his throat and left him on the sidewalk to bleed out. This same crazy tenant also put a red dot through plastic when my contractor installed granite and windows in his unit. He proved to me how mentally unstable he really was. So I had no choice. The other good tenants were all wanting to move. The man injured was afraid to ever reside there in the future. I hired a lawyer and went for eviction. I knew this was tough as the police involved did not even uncover what had happened. In the end, it costs me $7000 to do the right thing. My lawyer used the law to make a case as unit 5 ended up needing surgery on his wrist and they also wanted to press charges on unit 3. The judge in my case found unit 3 guilty based on evidence and tenants who showed up to testify. I won the case, stood up for my other tenants, but the judge would NOT grant financial victory for me, thus costing me the $7000 in fees. Unit 3 left his place a mess. I felt better about the situation and then I was called as a witness when unit 5 went after unit 3. That judge said he found my testimony credible and of course we cited the eviction we had also just won. I forgot to tell you, we were right in the middle of selling this 5 plex, and there was zero upside for us. We spent the money to uphold integrity and the protection of the other tenants. Moral victory sometimes comes at a price. My advice is protect yourself and document. Maybe both of your tenants are at fault? Maybe one is? But you have to show good faith as a landlord that you will protect your tenants in some fashion. We did not want to manage the drama with this nearby city and sold it with only a 1 1/2 year hold time, but proved to be a good investment. Paid $370k and sold for $545,000 and paid ZERO realtor or escrow fees!

    Best of luck with your situation! Dealing with people’s drama is a real mental and emotional time suck!

    2Reply
  • Michael Plante
    Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Let the police handle it 


    IF there is a problem down the road get the police reports etc.  No use wasting time or money at this point 

    0Reply
  • Grace A.
    Investor · FL · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 21 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Todd Powell:

    @Alyssa Lebetsamer kind of went through this. We bought a 5 plex, and inherited unit 3 and unit 5 was vacant. We rehabbed unit 5 and found wonderful new tenants. Unit 3 was a black man who admittedly took medicine to help him mentally. All the tenants were afraid of him. One day I get a call from unit 5, 1 and 2, all telling me unit 3 beat up unit 5 so bad they got the police involved and the man you got beat up went to the hospital with several injuries. People wanted to move due to unit 3 and his erratic behavior. No one had any proof and each told a different version. After a little investigation, unit 3 went off on my telling me he could have cut his throat and left him on the sidewalk to bleed out. This same crazy tenant also put a red dot through plastic when my contractor installed granite and windows in his unit. He proved to me how mentally unstable he really was. So I had no choice. The other good tenants were all wanting to move. The man injured was afraid to ever reside there in the future. I hired a lawyer and went for eviction. I knew this was tough as the police involved did not even uncover what had happened. In the end, it costs me $7000 to do the right thing. My lawyer used the law to make a case as unit 5 ended up needing surgery on his wrist and they also wanted to press charges on unit 3. The judge in my case found unit 3 guilty based on evidence and tenants who showed up to testify. I won the case, stood up for my other tenants, but the judge would NOT grant financial victory for me, thus costing me the $7000 in fees. Unit 3 left his place a mess. I felt better about the situation and then I was called as a witness when unit 5 went after unit 3. That judge said he found my testimony credible and of course we cited the eviction we had also just won. I forgot to tell you, we were right in the middle of selling this 5 plex, and there was zero upside for us. We spent the money to uphold integrity and the protection of the other tenants. Moral victory sometimes comes at a price. My advice is protect yourself and document. Maybe both of your tenants are at fault? Maybe one is? But you have to show good faith as a landlord that you will protect your tenants in some fashion. We did not want to manage the drama with this nearby city and sold it with only a 1 1/2 year hold time, but proved to be a good investment. Paid $370k and sold for $545,000 and paid ZERO realtor or escrow fees!

    Best of luck with your situation! Dealing with people’s drama is a real mental and emotional time suck!

    Sounds like a terrible situation, but also curious why it was important to specifically highlight that unit 3 was a black man? 

    0Reply
  • Todd Powell
    Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Grace A. Oh, great catch as I did not mention the significance. He claimed it was a racial attack when it reality it did NOT matter what color or ethnic origin he was. This claim only complicated the matter more. There was zero argument as the facts spoke for themselves however if he really wanted to press the issue, I could have lined up many culturally diverse tenants I have including people of color. Thanks for asking about that as it was a part of the story.

    1Reply
  • Grace A.
    Investor · FL · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 21 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Todd Powell:

    @Grace A. Oh, great catch as I did not mention the significance. He claimed it was a racial attack when it reality it did NOT matter what color or ethnic origin he was. This claim only complicated the matter more. There was zero argument as the facts spoke for themselves however if he really wanted to press the issue, I could have lined up many culturally diverse tenants I have including people of color. Thanks for asking about that as it was a part of the story.

    Oooph. Glad you were able to get out of the situation relatively unscathed. Thanks for clarifying!

    0Reply
  • Todd Powell
    Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Grace A. $7000 did not feel unscathed. We did this for the good tenants in place and more of a moral victory, but not a financial one

    0Reply
  • Andy Brown
    Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 70 posts · 115 votes
    5y

    @Alyssa Lebetsamer

    You're now potentially on notice of violent tendencies of one or both of your tenants. They act up again and hurt someone, there is a common cause of action against landlords called "negligent security" that Plaintiffs attorneys love to use in order to get you and your insurance involved when the next incident happens. You need to find a way to get one or both of them gone. Very good chance you haven't heard the last of it between those two either. Contact a local attorney for an opinion on the local laws.

    0Reply
  • Alyssa Lebetsamer
    OP
    San Pedro, CA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 13 votes
    5y

    @Andy 

    @Andy Brown Holy Crud. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. 

    0Reply
  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    Very tough situation.  You want to provide a safe place for tenants, but do not want to choose the wrong person.  If you do nothing one or both can claim you did not take steps to make your unit safe.  I had something less intense, but similar.  I advised my tenants that I had no way to tell who was telling the truth and I was not law enforcement.  They were to call law enforcement in the event of violations of law, I would however be happy to take action if the courts made a decision.  I took steps to not renew either lease.  If it was clear who was the aggressor I would have taken legal action, but the evidence was not clear and was one person's word against the other.

    2Reply
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