Repair problem: who should pay for repair.

Repair problem: who should pay for repair.

Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 0 votes

I managed a rental by myself for a few years. I have this tenant moved in since Jun this year. In end of Oct, I got a message that the garbage disposal stopped working and there was leak under the sink. I went there to inspect myself. I found the leak was at the bottom of the garbage disposal and the garbage disposal was stucked. I reached in the garbage disposal, reverse the rotation and pull a knife from inside. The knife was about 6 in long (including handle) and the blade was about 3 in long. One of the three tenants was with me at that time. I told her that it was damaged by the knife and I needed to charged them for repair. I could order a repair and charge them or they could order a repair themselves. They chose to find their own plumber.

In two days, they message me back saying that the plumber said the garbage disposal was old and the damage was wear and tear. The plumber was saying that even a garbage disposal was stuck, it won't damage the unit. Now they wanted me to pay for the damage. I disagree and refused. They still had the garbage disposal fixed and sent me the bill. Following the bill, I called the plumber. The plumber told me that he did not know about the knife and that's why he made that comment. The plumber agreed with me that the knife could cause the damage.

I circled this back to the tenants in email (cc the plumber who was chosen by the tenant). The tenant still insisted that it was a wear and tear as their claim that's what tenant union told them (something stuck in the garbage disposal is wear and tear). They refused to talk to me but only asking for physical address to send legal paper. I refused to give them address but willing to talk to them. They refused to talk to me for resolution.

Not sure what I should do at this point.

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Real Estate Investor · Springfield, MO · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
5y

Tenants should never be allowed to do repairs.  You expose yourself to liability and contractor liens, which is sort of the situation you've got going on now with them thinking you owe them.

Contractors may give opinions, but most "normal wear and tear" is at least partially tenant's fault.  In this case, I'd say 100% tenant's fault.  I have lived in homes with garbage disposals for almost 35 years and have NEVER dropped a piece of cutlery in it.

Get rid of garbage disposals as units turn over.  They bring you zero extra rent and are a constant source of hassles.

They have begun passive aggressively ignoring you.  That's a bad sign.  As for me, I would invoke the "Happy Clause".  I doubt anything you can do at this point will make the tenants happy.  Even if you pay 100% of the bill, any future rent raise will be "unfair....do you remember 10 months ago when our disposal went out?"

Happy Clause goes like this: "I can see you aren't happy with your home and the terms of our lease contract.  I will allow you to give 30 days notice and be moved out by December 18th with no break of lease penalty.  You may either stay here and be happy, or you may go be happy somewhere else."

An old adage: "The Land lord is in charge; the tenant is not."  Stay in charge, always.

P.S.  Follow up tip.  I learned early on the WORST thing I can do when diagnosing a repair is telling a tenant they will be eating the bill while I am there in person.  I simply diagnose the problem, fix it, then send them the bill.  That removes you from being there in person if they decide to do something stupid like hit you with a lamp.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    @Eric Li My first thought is, based on your description of things, it sounds to me like you are right - the tenants caused the damage and they should pay for the repair. 

    My second thought is, it also sounds like neither of you are going to budge on this and, the way this is headed, it appears as if your relationship with these relatively new tenants is inevitably going to be ruined over a $100 piece of equipment. 

    So I have two questions for you: 1) Is it worth it? And 2) Is there possibly some compromise you guys could come to before this goes any further (i.e. before “legal papers” start getting served over a garbage disposal)?

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    5y

    How much was the bill?  If it was $100, I'd 'forget' about it, but make sure to increase their rent at lease renewal to cover those costs and if they don't renew their lease, I would find some extra cleaning to do at move out.  The knife broke it, but at this point you are at a stalemate.  I agree with the other person that said not to let them choose a repair person.  You deal with it and charge them for reimbursement it will prevent something like this from happening as you can tell him your removed a knife from it.

  • Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Clarification. The tenant has paid the bill but they want me to paid them back. The bill is only $180. I totally agree that it is not worth it but after my first decline, the communication already went down hill very rapidly. They are not even telling me what their reasoning is now.

    My concern is not for this bill. I don't want to build up a pattern that a landlord is paying for a repair that 1) is not agreed for landlord to pay; 2) is a damage. 

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    I don't know where you are but in most places you are required to have a physical address for service of legal papers. Don't argue this point, provide an address of your lawyer, or registered agent. 

    I agree they damaged the disposal but read your local regulations on how they can handle a dispute so you aren't found wrong just for not following procedures.

  • Patti RobertsonBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    I can almost guarantee thatbyur state requires each party to know the physical address of each other or at least your "agent" so you can be served. Not providing this is hiding your head under a rock, because the state Lilly has an option that the state can be served on your behalf of you do not provide an in state address for you or your agent. If this happens you will likely be party of a lawsuit you don't even know kwow about. 

    Personally when we have a garbage disposal break in a rental, we remove it instead of replacing it. Tenants use it for a garbage can instead of just using it to clear scraps. 

    I've dropped plenty of spoons down my disposal and it has never broken it. In this case, I'd suggest a truce with the tenant and you offer to at pay half. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    5y

    Let them know where you live. If they want to sue you, let them sue you. 

    They won't. It will cost them half that just to sue you and there's a very good chance they would lose.

    They've already paid the bill so just don't talk about it any more. If they continue to harrass you about, invite them to give you a 30 day notice and move out.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
  • Real Estate Investor · Springfield, MO · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Tenants should never be allowed to do repairs.  You expose yourself to liability and contractor liens, which is sort of the situation you've got going on now with them thinking you owe them.

    Contractors may give opinions, but most "normal wear and tear" is at least partially tenant's fault.  In this case, I'd say 100% tenant's fault.  I have lived in homes with garbage disposals for almost 35 years and have NEVER dropped a piece of cutlery in it.

    Get rid of garbage disposals as units turn over.  They bring you zero extra rent and are a constant source of hassles.

    They have begun passive aggressively ignoring you.  That's a bad sign.  As for me, I would invoke the "Happy Clause".  I doubt anything you can do at this point will make the tenants happy.  Even if you pay 100% of the bill, any future rent raise will be "unfair....do you remember 10 months ago when our disposal went out?"

    Happy Clause goes like this: "I can see you aren't happy with your home and the terms of our lease contract.  I will allow you to give 30 days notice and be moved out by December 18th with no break of lease penalty.  You may either stay here and be happy, or you may go be happy somewhere else."

    An old adage: "The Land lord is in charge; the tenant is not."  Stay in charge, always.

    P.S.  Follow up tip.  I learned early on the WORST thing I can do when diagnosing a repair is telling a tenant they will be eating the bill while I am there in person.  I simply diagnose the problem, fix it, then send them the bill.  That removes you from being there in person if they decide to do something stupid like hit you with a lamp.

  • Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Another clarification, the reason I don't want to share address is not afraid of legal note. It is more for security reason. I have offered to the tenant that if they email me the document, I will sign and date a hard copy and mail it back to them. 

  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Sue you....over $180 bill...... good luck with that..... it will cost them that much to even talk to a lawyer......and at least half that to even file it themselves.

    I agree with Nathan.....as usual.....

    My lease states in bold language.... NO UNAUTHORIZED REPAIRS WILL BE PAID FOR BY THE LL.....you did not authorize to pay for the repair= no reimbursement

    But to be honest.....if I'm confident enough to go over and diagnose the issue with a disposal, I'm competent enough to swap one out...... takes about 30-45 min and less than $100. If I don't feel confident to diagnose the issue, I call a repair man and then send the owner the bill if its tenants fault.

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