She broke another window!

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She broke another window!

Ryan L.
Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 7 votes

This is becoming a problem.... My wife and I self manage our 5 rentals and we have been on this journey for approx 3 years. Everything has been going great up to this point but one of our tenants has been in the house for about a year now and has a two year lease.  Over the last year we have had several issues with the tenant.  First, she consistently would pay her rent late......Not a big deal we collected $50 late fee and she would always pay about a week later.  Then she stopped paying the water bill in full. In our county the water bill has to be in our name as the owner.  Then tenant would pay but never in full and it would accumulate up to about $400-$600 then she would gradually pay it down.  Next after making some visits to the property we learned that she has been allowing her 2 adult kids stay at the house even though they were not on the lease.  Next we find out that she has 2 kittens in the house even though the lease specifies no pets.  Now tonight I get a call saying that a large window in the house has a crack in it.  This is the second window replacement I have had to do in the last year. The last window they said wouldn't close and they cracked it trying to force it closed.  I replaced this out of my pocket.  The second window to crack is a picture window.  It doesn't open or close so I know it has to be cracked because something hit it.  It seems like we are getting a lot of extra wear and tear on the house...... How do I address these issues.  Should I tell her that windows don't break unless something hits them and it is her responsibility to hire a licensed professional to fix the window?  I can do it myself but my time availability is limited right now and I prefer not to.  What are your thoughts how you would handle the overall situation?  The property cash flows really well for us but it is frustrating that our tenant is causing increased wear and tear on the property and breaking all the rules we initially set in the lease.....   

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Steven Hamilton IIPro Member
Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

You repair it and send the bill for it. Document from the professional what the source of that kind of damage is. Your lease should address this. it should also address how payments are applied. We apply to Repairs>Utilities>Late Fees>Rent. In that order

I would've posted a notice for her to remove the occupants and the kitten. You should start conducting regular inspections to check on this behavior. 

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  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Ralph R. "You are in a fix with this tenant because you managed yourself into it." 

    I don't think anyone said that better. I'd imagine it's easy to do when you have 5 properties and limited time. Personally that's my magic number and goal. Going the PM route after that. 

    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    Ok, as others have said issue a lease violation letter for cats and kids.  If you feel safe to do so I would  hand deliver it and have a brief conversation about the definition of guests. Also let her know you will be billing her for the window. 

    If you didn't have a megastorm they broke the window. If it isn't a safety issue schedule it at your convenience (also if you don't pay heat.)

    Put your location in your profile and you may get more location specific advice. 

    0Reply
  • Ralph R.
    Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    6y

    @Syed H. The MTM lease would allow him to give a 30 day notice to get her out. No reason, no eviction. He’s stuck for not one but 2 years. I guess as to the self managing thing if you want a job as a PM that’s ok. I make more money finding investments, insurance, financing etc than I would as a Pm. I would rather be an investor than manage 100 units. I like the passive income. To each his own I guess. RR

    0Reply
  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ralph R.:

    @Syed H. The MTM lease would allow him to give a 30 day notice to get her out. No reason, no eviction. He’s stuck for not one but 2 years. I guess as to the self managing thing if you want a job as a PM that’s ok. I make more money finding investments, insurance, financing etc than I would as a Pm. I would rather be an investor than manage 100 units. I like the passive income. To each his own I guess. RR

    Even if he gave her a notice to get out, he would need to file for an eviction after she doesn't leave. This all depends on the state of course.

    & passive income is great. Just have to be Ok with passive investor returns. 
      

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  • Judy Parker
    Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
    6y

    Proceed with eviction immediately: habitual late payment, non-payment of the water bill, unauthorized occupants, pets, damage, etc. Why do you continue to allow this Tenant to take advantage of you? Also: don't ever do two-year Leases, and don't trust a Tenant to handle repairs. Hire your own repairpersons, fix the damage and then invoice the tenant.....just sayin'.

    0Reply
  • Jerry Lucker
    Flipper/Rehabber · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 333 posts · 459 votes
    6y

    @Ryan Lachmiller

    Not to oversimplify but - get rid of her

    0Reply
  • Ryan Proffit
    Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes
    6y

    @Ryan Lachmiller I am a new landlord, but I know people very well. You just need to look at behavior trends. Whatever happens, immediately read through your lease, then follow whatever the lease says. “If you know the enemy, and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of 100 battles.” Sun Tzu. Replace enemy with tenant, replace yourself with lease, and replace battles with rentals haha.

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  • E.S. Burrell
    Rental Property Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 192 posts · 205 votes
    6y

    I did a two year lease and it was hell!!! Never again!!! Believe me; It’s going to get worse. It’s time for your tenant to go. I would evict immediately. The $50 extra a month you’re receiving in late fees is not worth the headache and sleepless nights. Sounds like you’re running a daycare. I feel your pain.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Syed H.:
    Originally posted by @Ralph R.:

    @Ryan Lachmiller @Dennis M. I’m with Dennis and the other poster. You gain nothing from a 2 year lease but headaches. Do a lease that ends in a year or less then goes to month to month. Never end the lease between Sept and May as these are the slowest months to find a renter. Secondly at 5 units your time to use a PM has come. You are limiting your growth by trying to self manage. You are in a fix with this tenant because you managed yourself into it. Had a PM done the same thing you would be ready to fire them. I’m not offering advice as to handle this tenant, the windows, the guest or the cats, because no matter what you do it won’t cure until she is gone. You need to figure out how best to get her out of there, cut your losses and move on. There is no one to blame here, but there are some very big lessons to learn and I’m betting the tuition is gonna be expensive. RR.

    There is nothing wrong with a lease. A MTM agreement wouldn’t have saved him from a bad tenant that he didn’t deal with. 
    OP needs to evict this person immediately. He should have done that awhile ago. 

    Secondly, yes he can go hire a PM right now, but if he learned how to manage it properly he doesn’t need a PM. It’s nonsense that self managing is “limiting”. You can manage 100s of units yourself if you do it right. People need to treat self managing like a business, not a charity. If people break rules, you evict. It’s pretty simple. 

    I suppose things vary from state to state, but around here there is little advantage and much disadvantage to using a long term lease. With a 12 month lease, the renter has the opportunity to remedy lease violations - that makes the landlord stuck with a tenant they know is trouble and will inevitably get rid of. And when a landlord does try to get rid of a bad tenant with a long term lease, be it for a lease violation or unpaid rent, the laws are different for long term than they are month to month. I can get a writ for a month to month renter in as little as 30 days and no longer than about 45 from start to finish while a 12 month lease takes months, as many as 3 from the time you start the process so if a landlord drags their feet, it can be 4 or 5 months!!! Also, there is little to stop anyone from moving out early, and the judgement for damages that can be awarded in these cases is one thing, collecting is another. Finally, it just seems too risky to me to get a bad tenant in there, and then have to worry about 11 months of bad behavior/damage when I could have reduced that to 30. Again, not all states are the same, but around here there is little advantage and much disadvantage with having a long term lease. I think long term leases are simply a false sense of security. My two cents anyways. 

    1Reply
  • Ralph R.
    Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    6y

    @Syed H. as to self managing your own properties limiting growth how do you self manage long distance properties? I find deals all over my state how would I self manage properties that are 5-6 hrs away?? I manage a 40 unit self storage facility. I’d hate to manage it from a long distance. How many properties are you self managing? What program are you using to track rents, deposits, expenses?? As to the eviction thing you are just looking to argue, if this and if that. A simple 30 day notice to vacate would have moved her out the first time she paid late rent. If she doesn’t leave it’s not an eviction. There’s no lease so it’s a trip to court and a court order. You don’t have to prove anything. The tenant is a squatter at that point. Have you any experience with this?? Or an eviction?? RR

    0Reply
  • Ralph R.
    Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    6y

    @Merritt S. I agree and after 5-6 units I found it easier to use a pm. my units are spread out over 4 cities, and the PM tracks the rent, deposits, and expenses. Saves me the expense of a book keeper to do it for me. I could do the maintenance, collect the rent, flip the units between renters, and vet the new tenants, but then I wouldn’t have time to find deals, buy, or sell properties. By doing my own maintenance I’m hiring my self who is not a plumber or electrician and paying the same rate I would pay to a licensed professional. Why would I pay top dollar to hire a lower quality maintenance person (ie myself). I want the passive income not a side job. RR

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  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ralph R.:

    @Syed H. as to self managing your own properties limiting growth how do you self manage long distance properties? I find deals all over my state how would I self manage properties that are 5-6 hrs away?? I manage a 40 unit self storage facility. I’d hate to manage it from a long distance. How many properties are you self managing? What program are you using to track rents, deposits, expenses?? As to the eviction thing you are just looking to argue, if this and if that. A simple 30 day notice to vacate would have moved her out the first time she paid late rent. If she doesn’t leave it’s not an eviction. There’s no lease so it’s a trip to court and a court order. You don’t have to prove anything. The tenant is a squatter at that point. Have you any experience with this?? Or an eviction?? RR

    I manage it all by being organized, by using built systems, and delegating menial tasks. I only buy RE within a 2-3 hours drive of where I live because that what I can manage and also can find great deals. 

    I manage 37 units. I'm currently in entitlement phase of a 40-50 unit ground up rental. And should be somewhere around 70-100 units by the EOY without counting my new development project. I use Stessa, Cozy, Excel, google drive, google voice texting, and a PO Box. I only spend anywhere between 10-15 hours managing my rentals. Most of my time is spent sourcing. That 10-15 hours would cost me $200-$250/hour to pay a PM. A PM who will take a phone call, call a handyman, and then up-charge me on the maintenance. There's also additional value in knowing my properties are run better than most of the PMs in my market. I guarantee I have a lower vacancy than most pm's in the area and are managed better. 

    I also manage 7-15 flips/year, 2 more retail businesses, and another business. Managing just some rentals is easy. Almost everything else I do, is a lot more work than rental apartments. Now I don't know how your self storage operates, so I won't speak on it. 

    Also I'm not trying to argue, but OP didn't say where he was located. You are talking about your own state and talking like it applies to the whole country. That is not the case. In one of the states I operate, a MTM and 1 Year lease has the same unconditional notice to quit time period (15 days). It's not just a "squatter" if they stay after the notice to quit. It's a holdover and still has to go through the eviction process to forcefully remove them. & Yes I have done these myself actually. 

    0Reply
  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ralph R.:

    @Merritt S. I agree and after 5-6 units I found it easier to use a pm. my units are spread out over 4 cities, and the PM tracks the rent, deposits, and expenses. Saves me the expense of a book keeper to do it for me. I could do the maintenance, collect the rent, flip the units between renters, and vet the new tenants, but then I wouldn’t have time to find deals, buy, or sell properties. By doing my own maintenance I’m hiring my self who is not a plumber or electrician and paying the same rate I would pay to a licensed professional. Why would I pay top dollar to hire a lower quality maintenance person (ie myself). I want the passive income not a side job. RR

    Self-managing & self-maintaining are 2 different things. I would never do any physical work myself. Like you said, it doesn't pay and we're worse at the work. But if something is leaking, I can make a 30 second phone call to my handyman to go fix it. 

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