Tenant gave 1 month notice to move (winter) doesn't want tours...

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Tenant gave 1 month notice to move (winter) doesn't want tours...

Jack B.
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

So my two dentist husband and wife team that I helped greatly by not raising their rent by hundreds of dollars a month, helped them buy a dental practice (advised them on terms of real estate) gave me 1 month notice to move in dead of winter right after their house closed...I had no idea they were looking. Last I heard they thought it was too complicated to get pre-approved for a loan before touring one of my other occupied properties...a huge sense of entitlement from these two. Tire kickers and such. Expected a tour for a property they weren't really interested in, said it was too much effort to get pre-approved, then suddenly after they close escrow they tell me they bought a house...

So now that I have four tours scheduled they are complaining about the tours citing how they are in the process of moving, the place is a mess as a result, etc. In reality they just don't like people walking through their space.

The lease and state law only requires me to give 24 hours notice and I've given 5 times more than that for 3 of the cases. The other case is 26 hours notice. So I'm within my right to show.

I told them due to the short notice they gave and it being dead of winter I need to show the house and not to concern themselves with the mess, applicants will understand that moving is messy.

Thoughts?


Personally it was a dick move for them to be looking and not say a word until New Years Eve, one months notice. On top of that a year ago they expected a tour of one of my other tenants houses without any contract or approval letter and when I asked them to at least get pre-approved they said it was too much effort. Yet apparently not too much effort to buy another house....

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Andrew B.
Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

I don’t understand the animosity. They had a legal agreement with you rent the property on a month to month basis. They gave one months notice, as required by the lease. If you had an opportunity to make more money, I’d bet you wouldn’t have a second thought about giving them 30 days notice to vacate. This is a business relationship, and everybody does what is best for their ‘business.’

If you want more notice, consider requiring 60 days notice to vacate.

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  • Nancy P.
    Naperville, IL · Member since 2018 · 330 posts · 357 votes
    6y

    Not only do I make a point of telling tenants when they sign that I can show it for the 30 days before they move, when they DO try that crap I just tell them they will be losing their deposit then,  legally if they prevent you from being able to re-rent it that's their money.

    Is their lease even over?

    1Reply
  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I don’t understand the animosity. They had a legal agreement with you rent the property on a month to month basis. They gave one months notice, as required by the lease. If you had an opportunity to make more money, I’d bet you wouldn’t have a second thought about giving them 30 days notice to vacate. This is a business relationship, and everybody does what is best for their ‘business.’

    If you want more notice, consider requiring 60 days notice to vacate.

    6Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    @Jack B.  Are they on a lease?  If so, what does the lease say about breaking it?  If not, stick to 30 days and tell them there will be showings and you will do your best to group them together.  they don't need to be there or approve of it, you just have to give notice.  Look at the positive-you can now charge market rents.  

    In the future, the only person benefiting from below market rates are the tenants and more often than not, they don't care.

    0Reply
  • Jack B.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nancy P.:

    Not only do I make a point of telling tenants when they sign that I can show it for the 30 days before they move, when they DO try that crap I just tell them they will be losing their deposit then,  legally if they prevent you from being able to re-rent it that's their money.

    Is their lease even over?

    The lease states that I have a right to show anyways, and they were on a month to month. But for people who I took out to dinner (after they took me out to dinner) who I didn't raise rent by $200 a month when I could have to not mention they were looking, let alone a year after they told me it was too much effort to get pre-approved to get a tour of my other tenant occupied property they were interested in buying, they would keep renting instead, etc. to just give one months notice like this....

    0Reply
  • Jack B.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Andrew B.:

    I don’t understand the animosity. They had a legal agreement with you rent the property on a month to month basis. They gave one months notice, as required by the lease. If you had an opportunity to make more money, I’d bet you wouldn’t have a second thought about giving them 30 days notice to vacate. This is a business relationship, and everybody does what is best for their ‘business.’

    If you want more notice, consider requiring 60 days notice to vacate.

    Did you even read my post or just skim parts of it? I clearly said I left hundreds a month on the table not raising the rent on them and told them that....and the fact that they told me it was too much effort to get pre-approved to tour a tenant occupied property they were "interested in buying" and you will see the reason for the animosity...it's all posted there for you to read, you just have to comprehend what you read or at least not skim it.

    0Reply
  • Andreas W.
    Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 502 posts · 215 votes
    6y

    @Jack B.

    It sounds that you feel personally hurt. That is understandable but a risky notion in real estate. The dentist couple did what is in their best interest. At first they were personable so you give them good conditions, then they did not inform you about their move earlier so that you keep renewing the lease until they secured their house. Now they don't want to pay for the place any longer than necessary and gave you the 30 day notice. Of course, it is a nuisance when the landlord drags applicants through their place. They hope to dissuade you from doing this.

    Let your lease be the guiding paper and do what is in your best interest. I like the threat of losing security deposit if they violate the showing stipulation. It might work.

    4Reply
  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Jack B. I read it all, but it’s not relevant. You chose to charge less rent. They paid the rent, as obligated. If you wanted something in return, you should have put it in writing. Perhaps this is a lesson for you.

    And the tenant lied to you? About something that has nothing to do with your business agreement? Sounds like you’re just taking it personally. If they didn’t want to buy your house, they don’t have to.

    I understand being a little annoyed that you have only one month to scramble, but the fact is that you had a business relationship and they fulfilled the obligations of your agreement. It’s not their fault that you agreed to unfavorable terms.

    2Reply
  • Nancy P.
    Naperville, IL · Member since 2018 · 330 posts · 357 votes
    6y

    I totally understand the animosity.  Thick skin goes a long way in this business,  I've learned the hard way.  Going forward,  if you choose to leave hundreds on the table because you like a tenant, consciously choose to do so,  knowing you might get smoked.  We had elderly neighbors who are now our tenants,  we gave them $200 under market,  thinking they wouldn't be there for long....it's been 3 years and 5 months so far,  now we're about $300 under market.  I start to fume about it sometimes....but it's not their fault their health hasn't forced them into a nursing home yet.  (They are nearly 90!)   Show the damn property anyway.  They are doing what's best for them,  you do the same.

    0Reply
  • Frank Chin
    Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I had a tenant, nice guy, had mental health issues, his mom was paying his rent, till his mom ask me to evict him finally. His mom and dad were real estate investors, and he didn't like his mom's rentals offered to him, prefers my SFH.

    After the eviction, he allowed me to show the place, saying as soon as I have a renter, he'll move. He was a nice guy, I was a nice guy, so we agreed on it.

    After several months of showing, about four, my agent protested that my tenant is wasting his time. He had to show the place stepping over dirty clothes on the floor, dirty dishes in the sink. I explained to the agent the tenant is being compliant, allowing showings, didn't even require 24 hours notice. Explained he's suffering from extreme depression, had no energy to bathe, shower, get out of bed, let alone washing dishes, and doing dirty laundry.

    So the agent said that it'll rent in a snap if clean and empty. When the tenant left, it was rented after one open house. Oh well, so much for making tenants to allow showings.

    When you do rentals, you run into all kinds. This tenant filed bankruptcy during the eviction. I got a form to fill out from the bankruptcy court. Since I was involved in credit and collections at the time, I explained I wouldn't be able to get his past due rent, about $6,000 at the time, and I reminded him he promised me I'll get my money no matter what. So he said, "you're right, then don't sign it".

    About a year after the eviction, started making monthly payments for a while, and finally an offer to settle the remainder, paid around $1,500 for something over $2,000. Invited me to a barbeque at his house to hand over the check.

    So I thought I lost money wasting my time on showings, but I almost got all my money back, several years late, even though he didn't even to pay it with the bankruptcy.

    So when I try to do showings with the tenants in place, I always remember this episode. You can force tenants to allow showings, but it some cases, you waste every ones time. I recall a landlord forced me to allow showings when I was a tenant, even when I'm not there, citing the lease. Figured I had no choice. Well, things were stolen from my apartment. Landlord tells me it's all my fault, should have kept my valuables locked up.

    So I see the situation from both sides.

    0Reply
  • Filipe Pereira
    Property Manager · Windsor Locks, CT · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Like others have said, you have to take your feelings out of it. 

    If they aren't allowing you to show, and your lease has verbiage requiring them to do so, they are in default of their lease and the security deposit should be deducted from accordingly. Make sure they are aware of that before hand, however. 

    Lastly, if you're hell-bent on showing it, request a police officer to be present if you think they will be aggressive. I've had to do this a few times at this point. Sometimes it's just a part of the biz. 

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Jack B. look at this as a learning experience. Don't mix tenants and friendships. Going to dinner with people and not raising rent because you liked them, is letting emotional friendships get in the way of business relationships. 

    As far as only giving you 30 day notice - that is probably all they are required to give you per lease. They don't owe you any more than what the contract states. As far as showing the property, hopefully your lease states you have the right to show the property. Assuming it does, just reference the lease. I wouldn't bring up anything about not raising rent $200. That was your choice. They owe you nothing and you both need to abide by the lease contract.

    I know it sucks when you are good to a tenant and they act selfish in return, but I have learned that is human nature. They probably think you got rich renting to them and therefore they owe you nothing. 

    The best advice I can give for the future - when you something extra or kind in the future, do it without expectation of anything in return. That way you are not disappointed. 

    0Reply
  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    The only thing I see issue with is them not allowing the showing with proper notice. Maybe ask them for a couple specific times that work for you to show the home and schedule group showings? 

    0Reply
  • Kyle Wells
    Realtor · Lake Stevens, WA · Member since 2018 · 122 posts · 91 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jack B.:

    So my two dentist husband and wife team that I helped greatly by not raising their rent by hundreds of dollars a month, helped them buy a dental practice (advised them on terms of real estate) gave me 1 month notice to move in dead of winter right after their house closed...I had no idea they were looking. Last I heard they thought it was too complicated to get pre-approved for a loan before touring one of my other occupied properties...a huge sense of entitlement from these two. Tire kickers and such. Expected a tour for a property they weren't really interested in, said it was too much effort to get pre-approved, then suddenly after they close escrow they tell me they bought a house...

    So now that I have four tours scheduled they are complaining about the tours citing how they are in the process of moving, the place is a mess as a result, etc. In reality they just don't like people walking through their space.

    The lease and state law only requires me to give 24 hours notice and I've given 5 times more than that for 3 of the cases. The other case is 26 hours notice. So I'm within my right to show.

    I told them due to the short notice they gave and it being dead of winter I need to show the house and not to concern themselves with the mess, applicants will understand that moving is messy.

    Thoughts?


    Personally it was a dick move for them to be looking and not say a word until New Years Eve, one months notice. On top of that a year ago they expected a tour of one of my other tenants houses without any contract or approval letter and when I asked them to at least get pre-approved they said it was too much effort. Yet apparently not too much effort to buy another house....

     Two things I take from this:

    1. You have the right to show the property with proper notice. They can not like it, but if it's in the lease they signed, then you can do it whether they like it or not. 

    2. I would not allow leases to go month to month. I would recommend renewing leases annually to ensure your tenants can't move out with only 30 day notice in winter. You can put in 60 day notice with automatic renewal if you really want. Create leases that expire in March through July by utilizing 18 month leases where needed. This gives you time to turn the unit over and begin marketing again. Put in early termination fees that deter tenants from breaking the lease early. 

    0Reply
  • Calvin OzanickBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Janesville, WI · Member since 2017 · 707 posts · 297 votes
    6y

    I would just open the door with your set of keys. You do not need them to let you in if you have given the proper notice. 

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  • Mike S.
    Rental Property Investor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2013 · 419 posts · 323 votes
    6y

    My standard procedure is, once I receive notice, I send them a move out checklist that also reminds them of the clause in the lease about showing and their agreement to it and keeping it clean and in show condition.  I also inform them (politely) that I would like to reserve Sundays from 2-4pm for showings.  That way it's spelled out and it minimizes impact on their privacy.  I then tell prospective tenants I'm having scheduled appointments at this time. 

    Caveat(s) I won't show a house that will need updating or repairs between tenants; I won't show if the tenant is anyway belligerent about it (hasn't happened yet).  FYI, you can't force them not to be there, so if they are going to fight you about it, it's no place for a prospective tenant.

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