Costs to fix 2nd floor shower leaking in downstairs?

Question

I've been trying to save money, and even am getting a roommate.

Now I've got a 2nd floor shower leak, leaking downstairs onto tile kitchen.

It's a stall shower with plastic shower floor. Shower & pipes ~10 years old. Has pipe with connecting joint I think.

It's leaking enough on my downstairs ceiling to make a few inches of drywall fall off. It only leaks when used. It's not gushing, but enough to need fixing.

There will be about a 1.5 x 1 foot ceiling repair patch that will need new drywall and paint. Plus, fixing the shower leak.

I'm tempted to try to open the ceiling and try to patch it up myself if this could run me over $1000 to call a professional. I know this isn't enough info to give me a "real" estimate, but I'm hoping to get an idea of what price range to expect. $500? $1000? $1500? More than I want to even think about?

I have a home warranty, but that doesn't appear to pay for this.

Has anyone had this happen before?

Any ideas on what kind of costs I can expect if I call a plumber/professional?

Jon K. · Answer

For now, I'm putting a bucket under it. Hopefully I can get a decent estimates and a plumber out in a few weeks.

It does seem to be the shower drain pan.

I poured a glass of water down the shower drain, and the leak was almost immediate. I guess it could be the gasket around the drain itself--- I'm going to try pouring water directly into the drain and make sure it doesn't touch the shower floor tomorrow.

The drain has a curvy PVC pipe with "arm." I can't figure out what the black square is that's right behind the ceiling drywall. I thought there was such a thing as a shower pan that sits under the PVC pipe, but Google tells me that's unlikely. (Yes, I'm over my head with this one.)

Michael Jones · Answer

@John Brown

You replied to a post from a shower leak from 6 years ago. I hope he got it fixed before now!!!!

Just playing around because it made me laugh.

John Brown · Answer

It depends on the location. When I found leakage in the shower line, first I tried to fix it myself. Then also water leaking continued. Then I called drainage contractors Ohio to repair this. My home is in ground floor. So it cost little less, it was $1000. In your case, it will cost more. Also depends on the location. It is better to consult with the local plumber.

Jon K. · Answer

Jon Holdman

Wow, this is incredibly helpful!  Thanks!! 
I'll update when I either have this fixed, or sewage fly. :D

Jon Holdman · Answer

Do you have someone who can pour the water in while you watch?  That would be best because the water is going to leak out pretty quickly.

If not, get some string with a small weight on the end and some newspaper.  Spread out the newspaper and pour a small amount of water.  Newspaper really shows water.  Then use the weighted string to try to pinpoint where the water is leaking out.

You may need to open the ceiling up further.  In the bottom picture, the pipe to the left goes to the shower and the pipe to the right goes to the drain line (unless something is really goofed up.)  The bend and the pipe to the right is the P-trap.  You can see three joints, one on each end of the U and one more on that elbow to the right.  You can also see two joints on the elbow up above the U, to the left of the bottom picture.  There is another elbow right below the shower drain and then the drain fitting itself.  Those could be the source, too.

No, plumbers putty won't help.  Once you pinpoint the leak, you would cut out the leaking part and replace the parts around it.  This may seem scary, but this piping is dead simple to work with.  Its PVC.  You can cut it with a hacksaw.  You need PVC cement and "purple primer".  You get the pieces cut to replace what you remove.  Dry fit everything first to be sure its correct.  But when you're dry fitting the joints won't fit as closely as with the cement.  The cement softens the pipe and they fight more closely together than without the cement.  You want replicate as exactly as you can the configuration of the pipes.  The slopes of the pipes matters and the position of the P-trap matters, too.  That elbow to the right in the bottom picture forms the "spill point" of the trap.  The pipe to the right will be empty as will be the upper portion of the elbow.  The lower portion of the elbow and the U will be filled with water.   That's the "trap".  The vertical pipe to the left and the horizontal pipe to the left will also be empty.

Once you get everything cut and fit together, you swab all the joints with the purple primer.  Do both sides of all joints.  This stuff cleans up with pipe and fittings.  Then apply cement.  I do both sides of the joint, too.  Then stick them together.  Ideally, you will twist the pieces a little as you put them together.  In a situation like this, though, you will end up with the last piece where that's probably difficult to do, unless you plan very carefully and that last piece is a straight piece.  You have to be quick.  The glue sets in a matter of seconds.

Plan to make at least two trips to the hardware store.  One to get the pieces you first think you need then another to get the missing pieces.  More if any one store doesn't have everything you need.  Always buy whatever they have, because if one store is out of one piece, the next store you go to is inevitably out of the piece the other store had.  I tend to just buy anything I think I might possibly need and return the leftovers.  Cut out the parts you need to replace and take them with you.  You will need additional couplings that aren't there now to connect up to the old pipes.

After you cut pieces out, stick a rag in the connection to the drain line to keep the sewer gas out of your house.  These pipes will have some water in them, so have a bucket and towels handy.  And the will be disgusting inside.

Or, once you've done a bit more investigation, call a plumber.  My view is there is no time like the present to learn.  Even if you screw something up, just cut out your errors and keep going.

Jon K. · Answer

THANK YOU!!!

I really appreciate the advice.

I opened up the ceiling.

The black "hard thing" was a metal drywall patch nailed onto 2 small boards.

The pipes are PVC with a joint.

There is a little mold up there.

I haven't tried the "pour water down the drain" test again to see if I can spot the leak on the pipes.

I figure I should let this dry out some, then pour water down and see if I can see a leak.

If I can spot the leak, would plumber's putty around the PVC joint be a fix?

Here are photos.

[img width={300}][URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/dscn9520n.jpg/][/URL]

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/dscn9521.jpg/][/URL]

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/dscn9522.jpg/][/URL]

Jon Holdman · Answer

Carefully cut away that drywall.  Just use a utility knife to slice through the drywall.  Its nothing but paper and soft gypsum.  Don't worry about just cutting a small are.  Go out a foot or 18" from those damaged areas and start cutting.  Fixing a 2'x2' hole is going to cost almost the same and take little more effort than fixing a 6"x6" hole.

Look under you sink (yeah, I know its not leaking.)  Notice that the drain goes down from the sink then makes a 180 degree bend back up, then makes a 90 degree bend and goes out to the side?  Then it goes into a wall or drain like or something.  That 180 then 90 degree bend is a "trap".  Or "P trap", since its like a sideways P.  When you use the fixture, that trap catches water.  That forms a seal that keeps stinky and dangerous sewer gases in the sewer lines.  There's one like it under your shower.  Or, if its older, it may be some other sort of trap.  They used to make various other types, but P traps are pretty universal now.

Once you get it opened up you can see what's going on.

Typically, there will be some sort of shower outlet that attaches to your plastic shower floor.  Its a metal and plastic piece that has gaskets and clamps into the hole in the bottom of the shower.  It gives you a standard sized outlet.  The P-trap then attaches to that.  Then the P-trap heads to the drain line.  These can be glued in or can be pressure fits where a screw fitting holds a gasket in place around another line.  Your testing shows the problem is almost certainly in the drain line, and likely right in this drain fitting or the trap.  This may be an easy fix.

Its also possible that whoever installed the shower floor didn't properly support it.  You stand on it, right?  And that puts a lot of weight in a small area.  The shower floor is not free standing.  It has to have good supports under it to take that weight.  If not, it will flex.  That stresses the drain pipes and that could cause the problem you're seeing.  It will also eventually break the floor itself.

Anyway, it all starts with actually getting a look.  Open up the ceiling and post some pictures.

Chris Masons · Answer

If poring a glass of water directly into the drain hole not touching anything else I think it's pretty safe to say your leak is on the drain line somewhere.

What kind of piping? IF it is PVC maybe a glued joint just loosened up or was weak to begin with? If it is galvanized you may have a hole in the steel somewhere but unlikely after only 10 years.

Sometimes the joint is weak and when put under preasure it will leak IE. a clogged pipe. But if jut by pouring a small glass of water down there and the leak is immediate sounds like you have a whole or bad joint of some sort.

just my guess..

keep us updated and good luck.

Let us know what kind of piping you have as well.

thx,
Chris

Scott Williams · Answer

Jon K
It sounds like you have had this leak for a while. As stated by Jon Holdman drywall is cheap and easy to fix. Open up your ceiling         ( Careful dont pull the whole thing down) to the floor joist on either side of leak it will make a opening about 16 inches wide that will allow you to see the drain and piping. And it will allow air to dry out whatever is wet. Then you can make a decision on how to proceed from there Good luck

Dave M. · Answer

In that image it looks like the paint is peeling off in a rectangle shape. Makes me think there was a previous repair there. Not sure what the "pan" you found behind the drywall could be.

It looks like the damage is right next to crown moulding? How is the wall in that area? Water will often follow your pipes or floor joists horizontally and also cause damage to nearby wall(s).

Hopefully you caught soon enough to minimize damage. I wouldn't wait a couple weeks to get it fixed as the damage will only get worse (and more $) if you continue to use the shower.