tenant withholding rent saying landlord hasn't fixed the items

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tenant withholding rent saying landlord hasn't fixed the items

Jhansi B.
San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 42 posts · 1 vote

Here is the story short. Rented single family home in March and the tenant was late in payment in May (which I gave her grace period and first time late fee waiver) and again she was late in June but said that she paid but bank paid to wrong acct etc..

In July she hasn't paid rent yet and when I sent her texts and email which she hasn't replied and suddenly this evening I get an email saying she is withholding rent because I haven't fixed the items in the house. My last communication with her is text message saying AC is not working which we have replaced recently and then she replied saying it's been taken care of the guy who replaced it. We replaced water heater, AC, Furnace, replaced the floors, all the appliances etc..

Unfortunatley roof leaked three four months ago and water came through the drywall in the garage. She has never mentioned to me that the moisture came to her daughters room. Now she says that there is mold and she had to go and purchase mold remediation stuff this weekend etc.. also there is gap in the side garage door we installed so pests are coming in, and AC guy took time to fix the problem which increased her PG&E bill $200 and there is a stump in the front yard which is a sore eye etc..

My gut feeling is she doesn't have money to pay so she is using all these as excuse. I would really love for her to move because I don't want to deal with people like this. These are free loaders, they just don't want to do what is right, pay rent but find excuses not to pay rent.

What should I do now?

Thanks

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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
14y

1) You need to speak with your lawyer about you exact responsibilities and the eviction process. Unfortunately, CA is a tenant friendly state. This tenant may well be a "professional tenant" who knows the law better than you and will drag you through a long eviction.

2) Forget about all these complaints. They're just red herrings to distract you from the rent. Focus on the rent.

3) Post a pay or quit notice for July TODAY. Talk to a lawyer about the correct forms and get this posted today. Unlikely you are getting July or August rent, so get this tenant out ASAP.

4) Truly forget about things like the stump and the gap around the door. Those were there when she moved in. She accepted the property with them.

5) Sounds like the AC is fixed.

6) Go over or send a handyman over to check out this mold issue. If there is a problem, fix it. Do not let the tenant start doing their own mold remediation.

7) If she says "I have to move out because of this mold", fine. Let her go. That's quicker and easier than an eviction.

8) Write down who said what when. Document any issues. Plan to end up in court, so create accurate records. If you do end up in court don't go into irrelevant details like we replace the water heater. Focus on the rent not being paid and when you were notified of problems and what you did.

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  • James Qiu
    Investor · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 73 posts · 34 votes
    14y

    If she reports mold, you need to get on the case right away. Any delay can potentially cost you lots of money and headache. Use a licensed and insured professional also. I'd also send her a letter stating that mold can cause serious health problems and ask her to move out immediately with FULL security deposit returned. If she does, great, you can take time to fix the problem. If not, at least you warn her the risk of staying. But that doesn't relieve you from fixing the mold problem quickly. Tenant can get a professional to fix an emergency problem (plumbing, heating or electrical) and deduct the cost from the rent. Other than that, normally, they can't delay or deduct the rent.

    If the tenant is on a monthly lease, you can terminate the lease with a 30 day notice.

    If you decide to take her to court, make sure you have 90% confidence you'll win, otherwise, it's not worth the risk. Remember CA court system is tenant friendly.

    0Reply
  • Ryan M.
    West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    14y

    Text and email are not the answer. If a resident is late, and it's the first time they are going to get me at the door making it clear this will not be tolerated.

    The response for the first time late sets the tone on how it's going to go.

    0Reply
  • Mark H.
    SFR Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 484 posts · 181 votes
    14y

    @Jhansi B

    Have you read your state's landlord-tenant act?

    The tenant doesn't get to choose to "withhold" rent that should have been deposited in your bank account 23 days ago.

    The law, and what this tenant is doing to you are completely separate things.

    You're not saving any money by "managing" the unit yourself, if you're allowing the tenant to lead you around like this.

    Hire an attorney to empty your unit out, then hire a pm to run it for you - or learn the law.

    0Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    14y

    1) You need to speak with your lawyer about you exact responsibilities and the eviction process. Unfortunately, CA is a tenant friendly state. This tenant may well be a "professional tenant" who knows the law better than you and will drag you through a long eviction.

    2) Forget about all these complaints. They're just red herrings to distract you from the rent. Focus on the rent.

    3) Post a pay or quit notice for July TODAY. Talk to a lawyer about the correct forms and get this posted today. Unlikely you are getting July or August rent, so get this tenant out ASAP.

    4) Truly forget about things like the stump and the gap around the door. Those were there when she moved in. She accepted the property with them.

    5) Sounds like the AC is fixed.

    6) Go over or send a handyman over to check out this mold issue. If there is a problem, fix it. Do not let the tenant start doing their own mold remediation.

    7) If she says "I have to move out because of this mold", fine. Let her go. That's quicker and easier than an eviction.

    8) Write down who said what when. Document any issues. Plan to end up in court, so create accurate records. If you do end up in court don't go into irrelevant details like we replace the water heater. Focus on the rent not being paid and when you were notified of problems and what you did.

    4Reply
  • Brian LevredgePro Member
    Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 903 votes
    14y

    In CA, repair issues are not a valid reason to withhold rent. In fact, even if there really is an issue, she would be unable to get the housing authority involved due to the fact she owes back rent. Don't text and don't call. You should be serving anyone that hasn't paid rent on the 5th of each month with a Pay or Quit Notice. You don't necessarily have to start eviction proceedings on the 8th but by serving the notice your preserve your rights to evict later on. Hopefully you've learned your lesson. No grace periods (outside of the law) and no special exceptions. Either they pay, they pay late with the late fee, or you evict them. Your tenant is pushing you around on this issue and you are playing right into her hands.

    0Reply
  • Ryan M.
    West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    14y

    Put your seatbelt on because it sound like this residents is going to take you for a ride down the time/money/stress road.

    0Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    I would see this in court all the time.

    The judge will ask the tenant for proof of communication about each issue to be fixed.

    If they can't provide the proof in writing (letter,e-mail,certified mail,etc.) they sent to you then the judge will not validate the claim.

    If it is in writing then you would have needed to save your receipts as a landlord and take before and after pics.

    If the tenant says it has mold etc. then the judge will say if it is unhealthy for you to stay there then WHY haven't you moved?? Usually the only thing they can say is they haven't found anything else yet in their rent range or that you are holding the security deposit.

    If it's they haven't found anything the judge will give the eviction order or maybe one more week to pay up.If it's the security deposit issue the judge might order you to give back the deposit and the tenant to and the tenant to be out by a certain date.

    If the tenant is claiming they had to make repairs then the judge will ask for receipts from a valid business with a date and time and proof the tenant paid for the repairs.

    In all the years of the judges being on bench the last one in our area said they have seen the repair defense thousands of times but have never seen a tenant produce repair receipts.I am sure it has happened but it is rare.

    The judge will validate the receipts are not inflated receipts from uncle bubba their friend or that work was done and they said to bill the landlord when the tenant is claiming they paid out of pocket (trying to double dip and get a repair credit off rent and then stick landlord with the repair bill at the same time).

    Every area is different but this is how I see these cases go down in mine.

    If they mention the mold as said give back security deposit and tell them they need to move.Say the place can't be made safe while people are are living there or storing things there.

    Sounds like a professional tenant just yanking your chain and that you have an older building with issues and they are using that against you.

    No legal advice.

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    0Reply
  • Ryan M.
    West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    14y

    The tenant only has to say about 3 words and they can appeal and buy time, that is the frustrating part.

    0Reply
  • Jhansi B.
    OP
    San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 42 posts · 1 vote
    14y

    Thanks for all the replies guys. I have asked her on the same day she complained that she can move out immediately if she thinks the house is inhabitable. She doesn't want to move out as she likes the neighborhood and kids are enrolled in school etc...

    I took an appt with inspection company to inspect mold and she doesn't want me to enter the unit without adult present as she has a minor child in the house. so I had to cancel the appointment.

    Today I went ahead and posted a 3 day notice and I get a call from a lawyer saying we can resolve this, my client will pay the rent as soon as you finish the repairs etc.. She said if I decide to go for unlawful detainer lawsuit eviction then in her own words, she is going to win and I will be paying $400/hour fees for her. She is literally threatening, wanting me to not file the suit I am sure the lawyer wishes I do though so she can make more money.

    what should I do now? Has anyone dealt with mold issues? Do I go with inspection company or do I just get a contractor to replace the sheetrock.

    Looking back when there was a roof leak, I should have removed the sheet rock because it stopped raining, I thought it will dry out and no problem.. and also the tenant did not say anything after that it just went to back of my head.

    Bottomline is I would love to have this tenant move out, she lies about everything literally. I just can't trust a person like that. She is supposed to pay $250 pet fee in the first month and she hasn't paid and I haven't noticed. In the lease it says one dog and she went ahead and got another dog without asking or paying pet fee.

    Today when I went by the house I noticed she removed the blinds (we installed new blinds) in front window and put curtains. Backyard had new sod installed before she moved in and now I need to look for green spots. Dogs peed everywhere killing grass.

    0Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Jhansi B.:
    ...
    I took an appt with inspection company to inspect mold and she doesn't want me to enter the unit without adult present as she has a minor child in the house. ...

    Family welfare services - whoever is in charge of the fact that there is an UNSUPERVISED MINOR all day long in the unit. Report her to the authorities! For her child's own good!

    0Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    14y

    Speak to a lawyer.

    Speak to a lawyer.

    Speak to a lawyer.

    1Reply
  • Ryan M.
    West, MI · Member since 2012 · 674 posts · 182 votes
    14y

    I would settle this for a signed release form and they move along, if at all possible. This is going to rack up some big attorney fees while they hash it out on your dime, even if you win you lose.

    0Reply
  • Mark H.
    SFR Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 484 posts · 181 votes
    14y

    This tenant thinks she has an "angle" - as unpleasant as dealing with her attorney is now, it isn't going to get any easier.

    Get your own attorney & get the tenant out of your house.

    She isn't paying rent, and she's violated your lease terms by bringing in unapproved animals.

    This situation only gets worse if you allow the attorney to browbeat you into submission.

    Whatever it costs you to extract this tenant from your home is money you lost when you signed a lease with her. Delaying the inevitable eviction is only going to cost you more money, not save you money.

    1Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    14y

    There's a big difference between spending $200 to speak with an attorney and getting advice and fighting it out in court. Right now you don't really know what your rights and obligations are. A few hundred with an attorney will give you a better understanding. You've had several days to find a lawyer. Find one on Friday.

    As far as I can tell, you haven't even seen inside the property. For all you know the "mold issue" is total BS. Doesn't you lease give you the right to enter the property? What is the law in CA if this isn't explicit in your lease? Hint - A LAWYER COULD TELL YOU! Give whatever notice is required and GO INSPECT THE PROPERTY. Tell her when you will be there and that she can be there if she wishes. Tell her you are going in and will inspect the property.

    You have ceded all control of the situation to the tenant. If you're unwilling to exercise your rights, and to speak with an attorney so you know what they are, then call a real estate agent and sell the property.

    0Reply
  • Jhansi B.
    OP
    San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 42 posts · 1 vote
    14y

    Jon,

    I really try to avoid confrontation of any sort. I haven't seen inside of the property and in CA, Landlord can enter the unit with 24 hour notice and the lease also says that. I didn't want to take chances entering the unit without her permission even though I can legally. Since she is withholding rent for the fixing the property and she considers it an emergency, she should be able to work with schedule instead of postponing.

    I will definitely speak to a lawyer. For every 10 good apples there is one bad apple and coming across one like this keeps me wondering why I am in this. but my heart says because I love what I do...

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Jhansi B.:
    Jon,

    I really try to avoid confrontation of any sort. I haven't seen inside of the property and in CA, Landlord can enter the unit with 24 hour notice and the lease also says that. I didn't want to take chances entering the unit without her permission even though I can legally. Since she is withholding rent for the fixing the property and she considers it an emergency, she should be able to work with schedule instead of postponing.

    A landlord often needs to confront problems. It may be that you're better off with a property manager. This tenant is clearly not abiding by the lease and claims an emergency while not making access easy.

    One of the worst mistakes to make is selectively enforcing the rules. A landlord can lose the right to enforce certain provisions of their lease because it can be seen as prejudicial.

    0Reply
  • Will Browm
    Investor · Buford, GA · Member since 2012 · 120 posts · 31 votes
    14y

    Apparently I do not "love what I do"... I own homes and keep my side of the contract. I expect my tenants to do what they committed to doing. I also expect to be profitable. This requires income (rent). I am really new but I cannot imagine bowing to so many failures on the tenants side. I think Charles is correct;you should get a PM. If you do the math, you would have more money in your pocket than now if you paid a Property Manager not nervous about confrontation.

    The idea about involving the authorities about the minor is great.

    0Reply
  • Joe Delia
    Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Jon Holdman:
    Speak to a lawyer.

    Speak to a lawyer.

    Speak to a lawyer.

    Speak to a lawyer, stop wasting time.

    0Reply
  • David Tower
    Real Estate Investor · Keller, TX · Member since 2011 · 118 posts · 39 votes
    14y

    This is the most frustrating type of post on BP. The kind where the OP sucks you in with a great story, or a great deal they are working on and then, when it's time to hear the big finale.......they stop posting.

    I'm sorry you're going through this Jhansi, I once had a very bad tenant situation when I was very young and in way over my head.

    Any updates to share with us?

    0Reply
  • Jhansi B.
    OP
    San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 42 posts · 1 vote
    14y

    David,

    I had environment services company inspector come out and inspect the property. He didn't read any moisture in the house, he took two air samples and one physical sample. Waiting for results to come back.

    I need to fix the roof before we go through the remediation process, I have decided to do the remediation process instead of dragging myself to the court. I went in to the house she literally pulled out the baseboards to show that there is mold in the bedroom. The inspector thought there is mold in the garage but not in the bedroom. We will fix the items and make sure the tenant pays the rent on time. When this time she doesn't pay on time we are going to go through the court.

    I will post as things start moving. It is very frustrating.

    0Reply
  • Brandon Kamm
    Commercial Real Estate Broker · Memphis, TN · Member since 2010 · 151 posts · 82 votes
    14y

    Jhansi,

    I say this with all respect. Do you realize that you will not receive any future rent from this tenant? You may receive the partial payment along with the "I'll pay it with my next check" line.

    I am more than happy to eat crow if I am wrong, but this lady is playing you for the fool. I hope you have learned from this.

    1. Know the law before you get in this business
    2. Have a lawyer ready to enforce the lease when the resident breaches.
    3. Lie to me once shame on you, lie to me twice shame on me. We hope people are good, most are, unfortunately many tenants are liars, this should be a good learning experience for you.

    It looks as though you have spent lots of unnecessary money on this situation, don't let that happen again.

    0Reply
  • Jhansi B.
    OP
    San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 42 posts · 1 vote
    14y

    I need to do these repairs either way whether she is withholding rent or not. Why would she not pay rent when it is due and if she doesn't, I can evict her right. One thing for sure I will not rent her the home when the lease expires. Her kids go to school in the neighborhood, it is a nice neighborhood and she likes the home. Now she has two pets and it is very hard to find a rental with pets.

    Most of our tenants are honest, I need to learn to weed out the bad ones in the beginning itself. I have always thought I would work with them and it will be a win win situation. Now I have three bad apples who don't pay rent on time and I have to go through eviction. If I didn't have this experience I would have worked with them for little more time.

    I look at it this way she is losing more than I am. I might be losing few months rent, but she will not get a referral from me and she has to move out which will add to her expenses.

    all in all I hate to go through the court system, paying $400 an hour to the lawyer. I do what I need to do right and if I have 90% tenants who are good apples and hopefully over the time I just chose to not rent with bad credit tenants, I will be ok in the business.

    0Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    14y

    Oh man. You're never seeing another dime out of this tenant. She hasn't payed the current rent and you're not doing anything about it. She knows you aren't doing anything. You're going to lose month after month of rent until you finally start the process and then lose six months more and spend money on lawyers until you get her out. Good luck.

    Rent's due on the first. Late after the fourth. Pay or quit goes up on the fifth, eviction starts three days later if they're not out. Now, I have had tenants that have had problems and I have worked with them. But its days late and they paid late fees. Whether repairs are needed of not, the rent is still due.

    2Reply
  • Joe Delia
    Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    14y

    Sad. OP, you need to leave the LL business. You're in for a long hard road.

    1Reply
  • Ann Bellamy
    Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    14y

    Jhansi B., it sounds like you are ignoring all the good advice in this thread that you asked for. If you posted to get us to commiserate with you, instead of to ask for advice, you are in the wrong place.

    All this talk of win/win is great, but if you allow the tenant to play you without consulting an attorney and knowing your rights, and acting on them, you are simply enabling them to play you that much more. And the rest of your tenants, if they know about it, will jump right on that bandwagon.

    1. Get an attorney. You are never going to get a dime from this tenant, no matter how much you are in denial about it. Get an attorney and get her out. She's a pro and you are an uninformed novice.
    2. Get someone else to manage your property. Landlording is the worst profession in the world if you avoid confrontation at all costs. .
    3. Understand if you have three tenants not paying rent it is YOUR FAULT for allowing it. Yes, it happens to all of us at some point, some more than others depending on the level of unit and location of property, but those of us who treat this business like a business, and not a charitable foundation or social program, go about the eviction process as cost of doing business so we can find a good tenant. Yes, sometimes bad things happen to good people, but if you keep allowing your tenants to run you around, it will be you on the losing end.
    4. If you want to give to charity, do so. Don't confuse your business and your charity giving.

    Sorry to sound so harsh, but you seem to no be listening to all the good advice you asked for.

    2Reply
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