Rental housing and domestic violence
Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 6 votes
Hi all,
We rented our place to a couple but one of them became abusive to the other after splitting up. Both of them are on the lease. What is a way to remove the abuser? It is possible that the victim might want to stay. However, we would like to remove the abuser. Thank you.
@Dennis M. OP has criminal activity occurring on his property. It is absolutely his concern. It's also wise to avoid being a crappy human being, which is exactly what he'd be if he had video evidence of domestic abuse and failed to act. You know what's really bad for your reputation and cash flow? A murder in your rental property.
@Wil Reichard . My lease has basically the same verbiage. And honestly, if the abuser leaves and the victim cannot afford the rent, then the victim has to move as well. Telling the victim to contact law enforcement isn't doing "nothing". But just like if you witness a purse snatching on the street, I would recommend not confronting the perpetrator or offering counseling to the victim. Call the police, or advise the victim to do same.
I'd still like to hear from anybody that would get actively involved. I know many want to be a help. Many want to be good people. But without the proper training, it's not a good plan. Again, that's not the same as ignoring domestic abuse. If one of your tenants says to you they're a victim, or you believe they are, call the police and let them handle it.
I am a multi-family property manager, and when domestic violence (or any non-fatal crime) happens in our property (currently 267 units, but I have managed upwards of 502 in the past), we refer back to the lease agreement terms. Many contracts should and do have a legally binding clause regarding committing a crime while a resident in our property. If it does, defer to that and to your attorney.
But, in case your contract does not have this language, your best bet is to:
1) see if there has been property damage (after all, in this business, the ASSET is first priority). If there has, you need to remedy the damage or at least have photo evidence in the event that they move and leave the damage there. You can recoup these costs against the renter's insurance or against their deposit.
2) see if you can get a copy of the police report. In my experience, a police report does not indicate guilt, as people lie to police all the time, or maybe the officer had bias against one person's story and chose to side with the other. Who knows? Either way, the police report should be obtained if at all possible.
3) determine if the parties intend to remain in the property together. Even if one of them is black and blue, you do need to know if you need to be prepared for a skip or eviction situation because the breadwinner is leaving.
4) decide if you believe enough about the situation to renew the lease when it comes up. This is assuming everything else is fine. Again, consult your lease terms about who can give notice and with what advance notice time.
Situations do happen in people's lives, but this is a home for them, and a business for you. You can't legally terminate the lease unless your lease agreement says you can for criminal activity AND your attorney advises you suitably. But if you decide to play advocate because you have a soft spot in your heart, you are playing with your business in an unfair way.
Sounds like OP has solved the problem. Sounds like the role of landlord was protected by the boundaries required. Interesting that people assumed that a call for support to decide on level of involvement included personal actions invested in a role that was not taken by OP. Sounds like they just tried to get on the front foot a bit regarding something they might not have much experience with.
Remaining impartial is a protective measure but where I live the social approach to DV has changed considerably in the last few years but mine has not. I always report crimes and act protectively, I'm not surprised by the cowardice of general population who passively contribute to social dysfunction. From what or whom I act protectively depends on circumstance but I don't get involved in the lives of stories of tenants until they request I do and even then I keep a professional cordial distance. I do not want crimes occuring on or near my properties but life happens.
I try to not get involved but we are managing people and housing is deeply personal so a swift measured decision is usually required. Refer to the contracts and protect myself. Not always cut and dry but try to keep it so.
@Wil Reichard . My lease has basically the same verbiage. And honestly, if the abuser leaves and the victim cannot afford the rent, then the victim has to move as well. Telling the victim to contact law enforcement isn't doing "nothing". But just like if you witness a purse snatching on the street, I would recommend not confronting the perpetrator or offering counseling to the victim. Call the police, or advise the victim to do same.
I'd still like to hear from anybody that would get actively involved. I know many want to be a help. Many want to be good people. But without the proper training, it's not a good plan. Again, that's not the same as ignoring domestic abuse. If one of your tenants says to you they're a victim, or you believe they are, call the police and let them handle it.
I agree that you’d need more info than to just throw yourself into stuff without knowing what you’re doing. At the same time I’m sticking to my morals on this one. They may be different from yours and that’s not necessarily bad, just different. I’m not a very passive person so if I witnessed a purse snatching on the street no I wouldn’t call the cops immediately. I’d pray I had my running shoes on because I’m going after them. Is it the best decision? Maybe, maybe not. But I can’t sit back and just call the cops and have them maybe help in what could take months.
I’d have the tough conversation with the tenant and outline the clause that goes over violence and let him know there are police reports filed. If it continued, as long as I had the legal right, I’d evict. Is it the right decision? Again, Maybe. Does my gut and morals say it was the right thing to do? Yes. I’m not going to enable someone like that with a place to stay. I see your point but that’s my two cents.
4. Collect rent from your tenants. Advise them if they feel a law has been broken, then tell them to call the police. If they are putting other tenants in harms way, then evict everybody.
5. If they cannot pay the rent, tell the remaining person you are willing to "work with them" in replacing them with a new tenant as soon as you can.
6. You absolutely should not involve yourself in this. You are not a police officer. You are a citizen. Citizens should remain good witnesses, and no more, unless said citizens wish to become the next victims.
7. If your neighbors are fighting, what are you going to do? Call the police. Leave it to the professionals.
This is what @Josh C. would be involved with. This is what he'd help the victim with. He'd direct her to the professionals that handle what her current problem is.
@Dennis M. OP has criminal activity occurring on his property. It is absolutely his concern. It's also wise to avoid being a crappy human being, which is exactly what he'd be if he had video evidence of domestic abuse and failed to act. You know what's really bad for your reputation and cash flow? A murder in your rental property.
Nicole ..I suspect your too emotional to be a good rental property investor . How many units do you currently manage ? Why would that be bad for my reputation ? I didn’t abuse anyone or get involved And i don’t live there or control who’s allowed there or even their emotions or responses ? It isn’t my responsibility to play referee or marriage counselor . My duty is property management not people manager.If someone’s being abused or exploited they should call the police and or leave . I don’t want to see anyone get hurt but This is common sense . Having someone die in the unit isn’t really that big of a deal from a rental business perspective .you just need to use the right cleaning agents get their junk out of the building and work with the local coroner. Sometimes it can increase cashflow cuz you can raise the rents for the next tenant
*you're
As an police officer and a landlord I’m going to go with the hands off approach with this question, unless it’s an ongoing disturbance to other tenants. Domestic violence cases are rarely cut and dry and far be it from a landlord to determine who is guilty or innocent days after the event. I often see that today’s “victim” is tomorrow’s “suspect.” If any of my tenants asked for my advise is let them know That state law requires that a DV victim can be let out of a lease early without penalty. Victims can also easily get a restraining order and force their partner out. Other than that I let people live their lives and make their own decisions.
I have unfortunately come across abusive situations among tenants several times. One resulted in an eviction, the rest resulted in lease non-renewals. I don't want abusers in my buildings. My strategy is to improve my properties to increase rents and add value. Removing an abuser is an easy way to improve the tenant quality of a property and I have no problem doing it. There is no place in my business model to allow domestic violence to occur in one of my properties. I also only have multi-families so it makes it difficult to keep quality tenants in the other units when this type of activity is occurring in the building. I give one warning, verbal in person or on the phone followed up with a formal written letter, and then evict immediately if there is a second incident. I don't get involved beyond making it clear that this type of behavior will not be tolerated in my building. Here's my warning letter:
Lease Violation Warning Letter
(Property Management Business Name)
Date:
Resident’s Name:
Property Owner:
Property Address:
Reason for Warning: Disorderly Conduct
Description: Between (Timeframe of incident example 10-11pm) on (Date) We received multiple reports from several community members about disorderly conduct in your unit along with behavior on your behalf that was deemed as disorderly by other residents in the building. This behavior is in violation of the lease agreement which you signed on (date of lease) which states in section 12: “Disorderly Conduct—Tenant agrees not to permit or suffer any disorderly conduct, noise, vibration, odors, or other nuisance whatsoever about the property and further shall not annoy, disturb, or harass neighbors or other residents of the community and to use no machinery or other apparatus which would damage the property or disturb neighbors or other residents in the community.”
Further Action: Please be advised that this is your one formal warning. (Business name) has a strict policy about this type of lease violation. One more lease violation on your behalf will result in eviction proceedings. Furthermore you could be held responsible for any financial damages suffered by (Business name) if an eviction is necessary. We appreciate your full cooperation in this situation.
Signed:
(Print):
Property Manager, Business Name
Date:
Had a domestically violent tenant. He was also violent to my walls, doors and windows, and ceiling fans. He was also scaring other good tenants (though they did not tell me this, until I asked them). My advice? Walk through the property regularly with all new tenants, talk to neighbors. Since the situation was ongoing I kicked them both out using the proper notice and got new tenants. Lots of times, the victim still can't see what a crappy boyfriend they have and they don't really want to press charges.
@Anthony Wick
You don’t have to be a trained professional to care about people. By that logic you would never do anything but what your college degree or real estate agent if you had a license. Being a property manager I’ve actually had to deal with this so I’ll tell you exactly what I did.
Tenant called us and told us her boyfriend beat her up and threatened to kill her. We told her come to our office and she filed the police report there in saftey. She said she was scared to get her things so I had our contractors bring two pick up trucks and a flat bed trailer. We helped her move her stuff with the protection of four hillbilly contractors and myself. Then took it to her mom’s garage. Two weeks later she moved into a nice little one bedroom place we manage filling another vacancy. The boyfriend got arrested and then abandoned the place. So we touch painted, cleaned and had it rented to new people in under a month.
The owner lost maybe $600 since we kept the SD to credit lost rent and turnover cost. But got new tenants that don’t beat women which is well worth it, plus they were in the second half of their lease anyway so those turn over costs were coming in a few months anyway.
I lost maybe $400 in salary costs for my staff and gas. Plus 2 hours of my personal time.
That’s it. It’s not hard nor do you need to be a trained professional or law enforcement to give a sh’t about people. Four hundred dollars means very little to me. The thank you text and tenant (and she’s referred other tenants) I have for life means much more than a nice dinner with the wife.
These situations don’t come up often so acting decent and helping terrified women isn’t a business decision as they are a fraction of a percentage in the scheme of things.
This escalated to murder very quickly at one point! This was turning into quite the whodunnit!
I used to be a police officer. At the end of the day, leases, like domestic violence court orders, restraining orders, etc, are pieces of paper that don't stop anyone doing anything to another person.
Start with better screening. If the perpetrator gets violent with the property, then evict them both. You're probably not trying to run a charity nor a counseling service. My 2 cents.
@Josh C.
You acted in haste and got lucky. If she was that scared then the police or sheriff could have been present while she moved. This easily could have turned south and you and your four hillbillies could have been killed. No Landlord or PM should ever do what you did!
I’m very clear on the point that you should let professionals handle something when the law is broken or people are in danger. I never said “do nothing”. Having her file a police report from your office was a good idea. Having her file at the police department would have been better. Acting like tough guys and thinking you can stop a dangerous person was not a good move. It made you feel better, but could have gone very bad.
I’m on record stating you could work with the victim in terminating their lease while they find a new place to live, if needed. That’s “helping”. Probably the state law as well. Also, it’s being a Landlord, which is the job you signed up for.
And never confront anybody when you have no idea what you’re dealing with (I know you didn’t confront him).
So, I appreciate you coming back and explaining exactly what you would do, what you did. But I hope nobody else takes your advice and tries to play hero.
@Anthony Wick
The police aren’t going to help her move with people and a trailer. That’s my main point. Some people don’t have a network or means to pay someone to move. I wasn’t a hero paying people to help move someone and offering my office as a safe place to file a police report. Only doing what I’d like others to do for my sister or mother. I have the means and ability to help someone and chose to, and would do it again. Some people don’t have the people or money. I get that. It cost me practically nothing. Two hours of time and less than I’d spend on a new toy I don’t need. And these aren’t business decisions as something like this happens about once every two years.
Anyway I can’t argue this point any longer, we just have a fundamental difference in what should be done, on to another post to tell someone they can’t get a 15 cap in an A/B area in Indianapolis.
So is only one tenant still in the unit? It's really better for the landlord to have bother parties on the lease because then they are both responsible for paying whether or not they live there. If either party can afford the rent I'd probably let tenant off the lease if the remaining tenant can cough up the rest of the security deposit or the moved tenant agrees to forfeit.If the abuser has moved out and the victim wants to stay, victim should get a restraining order (TPO/CPO). I'd do a security audit of the unit and see where I might make improvements that would be generally useful and suggest that tenant install a security system. If abuser moved out and victim wants/needs to move, let them. If the abuser is staying and hasn't otherwise ever caused any trouble, I'd honor the lease until the end and then probably non-renew if convicted. No matter what happens though, I'd make it clear that the neighbors don't deserve a sh*tshow and the moved-out tenant should not be on the premises.
In this case, who moved out the victim or abuser? are both able to pay full rent without the other party? only one? neither? What state are you in? ( some states give victims of domestic violence additional rights with regard to ending a lease.
I would look at your lease as some leases are getting sophisticated with adding language of such. If not, get a copy of the police report and speak with your attorney. As some folks have said if someone wants to get out the lease see if that makes sense for you and the property. Also, if the lease ending in 60 days or less you could talk to them about early termination so this way they are not tied to each other.
Just want to echo what some others have already stated above. I am not an attorney and don't know what your local law stipulates, but I also think there's a lot of responsibility that rests on the tenant's shoulders (the one who is the victim in the police report). You'll want to be super careful about getting involved. @Lulu Nguyen
If your still collecting rent then it really isn’t a concern for you . Your business is to collect rent not play Johnny marriage counselor and You certainly don’t want to kick out the primary breadwinner over an ethics or social reason. My advise is Don’t be a hero just stay out of it !
@Daryl Luc It's unfortunately common how frequently investors and real estate professionals misunderstand and misuse "quiet enjoyment" - Quiet enjoyment clauses are to protect the tenants, specifically from an intrusive landlord.
To OP - I'm glad the situation seems to have resolved itself. Now that you've had this first-hand experience, will you be modifying your lease or "house rules" in any way?