New fourplex owner questions (utilities, rent, etc...)

New fourplex owner questions (utilities, rent, etc...)

Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 208 posts · 96 votes

Hey BP family,

So I finally did it and made the jump into multi-family with my first 4plex closed today. I wanted to run the summary information here and get what feedback I could from all your experience. I've only purchased vacant SFHs before this. Any information and your time is greatly appreciated:

The rents are low, currently $420 (rural North Carolina) and market is near $500... All tenants on MTM lease

I will not raise the rent itself until April, giving them plenty of notice. I do not want to scare them away, nor force them away before winter. I do plan on raising it to $450 annual lease in April and to $500 by the next lease or with new tenants. But I do need to cut expenses drastically!

Water/sewer bill avg: $130/mth

Santitation: $95/mth

I was wondering if i should I individually meter? Cost is about $4000. Or maybe line item a water payment 1/4 of total on the lease above the rent? In the tenants head I'm thinking "they take baths, I don't" or "He has a baby pool in the yard, I'm not paying for that" 

Essentially I have the same question for sanitation. Currently 1 dumpster, but the company will provide 4 separate trash cans and setup the tenants on individual accounts. Or can I line item that too? My biggest fear with seperating utilities in both cases is if they don't pay, I get stuck with a monster water bill or with trash everywhere. But if I line item them, i'm essentially raising their cost of living by $40 and $25 for water and trash...

I'm also trying to figure out the best management solution. It's about 1.5 hours from me, and I plan to manage it myself (at least until I can get the rents up). But all of this management software is super expensive. I guess quickbooks and excel will have to do. But some tenants pay cash and I need to get that done with immediately.

Should I manage under a DBA or does that even matter? (It's owned in my LLC)

I wanted to ask about punch list items, should I open that door to them or am I asking for trouble? Maybe ask for 1 wish list repair or something and anything they've requested that hasn't been done yet

I'm setting up a welcome packet to have them all sign new applications, lease agreements, pet policies, lead paint, etc... And I'd like to have this all settled by mid-month to have them prepared for December or January utility changes.

As always, thanks BP!

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Retired Landlord/Author · Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

You sound like you have it under control.  I'm impressed...a lot !!!

My husband and I owned 40 rental properties, mostly single family homes but some apartments and duplexes as well. 

On the apartment building, a 4plex, we paid the water bill, and told our tenants during the signing of the lease that if the water bill did start to go up then we would have to increase their rents to compensate for the extra water bill usage. 

Yes, they would say, but it wasn't my fault.  I only have two people living here and my neighbor has 3 people and washes clothes every day.  

I would tell them I understood, but there is no way to prove how much each person or family uses, so if you see someone washing there clothes everyday or their cars, or they have guests over using the washing machines then let me know and I will address the issue with them.  But if everyone denies it and the water bill goes up do to usage, then everyone will receive a rent increase. 

Now, if you are going to make the tenant pay their own water bills, then I would recommend you putting in separate meters, because there is no way to break it down how much usage each family uses.  How many times do they flush a toilet, (flush handle gets stuck and water continues to run in the bowl) wash clothes, guests come over and uses the wash machine, etc.  

Therefore, your problem with billing a tenant for a water bill not on their own water meter, is going to be hard to prove that they actually used that much water and so this presents a problem in court.  

I would go ahead and pay the water yourself, as I posted above, and include how much the water bill runs a month for you and divide it by how many apartments you have and have the rents included in your decision to charge what you need to for rents.  Then that way you don't feel, that you are paying for the water, when in actuality you did include the water usage in how much rent you decided to charge.

Once again, you can threaten to increase rents of water usage rises.  

If you are in an LLC then you have to register yourself as a LLC Company. DBA's are only for people who file their taxes under their real name. Being an LLC you will have a Federal ID Number.

For repairs, I always took photo's of the home just before they moved in.  I printed them out in color.  I gave them to the tenants to see as they viewed home before we went into the kitchen to sign the lease.  And in part of my lease agreement was a page along with the photo's of the home and how it looked the day they signed the lease and they signed that document.  

During the signing of the lease, I told them what I expected of them, and then I told them what they could expect from me, and that was that I would take care of their repairs in the order I received them, but it had to be in writing, and if it was emergency I wanted them to call me right away and I would take care of that emergency within 24 hours. 

To test me, and tenants like to do that, they would call me right away with some kind of repair.  I told them to put it in writing per my lecture to them when signing the lease and I would take care of it and I did.  When our handyman had a chance, he went over there and took care of them.  No matter how trivial the repair was, I took care of it right away to show good faith, because I knew the tenant was testing my promise to them.  They respected that and they told me so. 

Therefore, don't mention a  list.  Just tell them that if they have any repairs that  need to be made,  send it to you in WRITING.   EVERYTHING MUST BE IN WRITING...EVERYTHING YOU DO AND THEY DO.  And then keep your word.

Just a suggestion. 

Nancy Neville

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  • Rental Property Investor · Arvada, CO · Member since 2011 · 146 posts · 103 votes
    7y

    Thanks for the recommendation @Peter Schuyler

  • Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 199 posts · 253 votes
    7y

    @Brian Orr

    A tote is a two wheel garbage tote supplied by most trash companies. We remove dumpsters when we by a multi family property and replace with these. A dumpster is usually around $100 a month on the low end and the totes are around $15.00 per month. So four a four plex with each unit having a tote you can go from $100 down to $60.00.

    A lot of different views. There in lies the challenge. If you ask 100 people how to do this business you will probably get about 300 different answers. And it may be that all are correct. Everyone has their own reasons and styles for how they handle challenges.

    My two cents worth is to keep it simple for yourself and your tenants. That is why I am in favor of just raising the rents and letting the tenant deal with it. If i chopped up utilities and it went from 420 to 500 they are going to be shelling out the same dollars anyway so the threat of them moving has not changed.

    And another thought, when I bought my first four plex my biggest concerns were collecting the rent ( that is still my number one priority) and not losing a tenant. I have learned as I became more seasoned that tenants are going to move on at different times and that I should never behave or react in a way that would be different if I knew they were not going to move out. Just do whats right and if the tenant has an issue just fix it and the tenants will stay more loyal for that reason than cheap rent.

    And the best advice I have ever received was "drive just as fast to a property to fix an issues as you drive when you know they have rent waiting for you and you will always have good tenants"

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    I am really interested to see folks suggesting rent increases and utility billing without (possibly) knowing the local rent laws.  

    Also, if you have good tenants - ie they pay on time and dont cause issues - why would you boot them out and bring an unknown in? 

    I guess i am a bit surprised at how cavalier some folks are to the effects on  the lives of others with some of these decisions and how good will is an important business concept. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 696 posts · 660 votes
    7y

    Agreed on NOT sub metering.  It is not worth the cost, especially for such a small complex.  MIGHT be worth it on much larger properties.  Implement RUBS (you will need an addendum for your lease as well.)  ALSO!  Be careful and check your state law, for example, in Oregon (I think this is common) you can not MAKE money on this, so you need to actually collect LESS than the actual bills.  Be careful and look at your state laws regarding this.

  • Charlotte, NC · Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    @Michael Jones are you able to raise rents as new owner if the current tenants have a one-year lease?  Anyone know the law for this in NC?

  • Charlotte, NC · Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    @Chris Shepard great input, thank you!  Where can I confirm if rent can be raised, like you did, in the state of NC?

  • Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 199 posts · 253 votes
    7y

    You always want to consult with a lawyer or do the research rather than take my or any ones word for legal advice.

    With that being said, a little research online says NC state law is a seven day notice to increase rent under a month to month lease. However, I would still give a 30 day notice just as a courtesy so they have a full month to adjust spending or move if they can not afford the increase.

    If the tenant is under a lease that is not month to month then an increase can not be passed to the tenant unless there is a provision in the lease that allows for a rent increase. So if you purchase a property and a tenant is under lease and the lease says nothing about a rent increase you can not increase under the end of that lease.

    Again, just my understanding and I am not an attorney.

  • Charlotte, NC · Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    thanks!  Will confirm with  legal advice.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    @Brian Orr Sanitation sounds like the low hanging fruit. Why are you paying 95/month if the tenants are able to set up their own accounts? Cut that none sense and add 1140 to your bottom line instantly!
  • Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2012 · 163 posts · 121 votes
    7y

    @Artie Wrightson

    You definitely want to connect with your local landlord association.   The apartment association in Portland sells forms that we use and they pay lawyers to update their forms when the laws change.

    Here are NC associations that should be helpful.

    https://www.aanconline.org/

    http://rhol.com/rental/NC/ncassoc.asp

    Go to one of the meet ups and someone there will be able to assist you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 208 posts · 96 votes
    7y

    Thanks @Artie Wrightson and @Chris Shepard I am doing that right now

  • Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 208 posts · 96 votes
    7y

    I wrote this in a new post but I'll copy it here, hopefully y'all see it: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/635...

    ....

    Well I just met with all of the tenants individually, all of whom are on M2M. Early in the conversation I let them know I would not be accepting cash as the prior owner did. This alone was met with near rage about having to figure out an app or having to pay $1.60 extra for a money order or 2% at a cash deposit station... I never even got near the point of raising the rent $55/month, pet fees, no more smoking, etc... Needless to say I think I need to take another route.

    The challenge here is getting the tenants to realize the old guard is out and new rules are in place. I'm willing to give them until jan 1 to enact the new policies and rates, but I know I'm being met with high resistance, and I fear they'll keep retreating back to "this wasn't how we used to do it".. I wanted to ask what you all thought of this plan:

    I want to give notice of termination of the leases this week, effective move out December 31 (This is more than the 30 days required by NC law). With that, present them with a rental application for the new lease to begin jan 1 with all of the policies and rates and allow them the opportunity to choose to apply under new management.

    Of course I hope they'd like to stay, but if not, the place could use some updating and I can likely get new tenants in at $500 once that's done.

    It's 7am while I'm writing this, and I will check with my lawyer first, but nothing beats the BP feedback and experience.

    Thanks in advance for your input!

  • Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 92 posts · 103 votes
    7y

    In my opinion, it's easier to just add the water/sewer expense to rent. I cover water/sewer at my 80 unit and ended up dividing the bill among the units and labeled it as a rent increase. After that, I went through each unit and installed tamper proof aerators on all faucets, along with low flow shower heads. Within a month my water bill was cut by $1,500, which was nearly 50%. 

  • Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 313 posts · 190 votes
    7y

    Hey good luck with everything man.

    My $0.02...The water issue is one all of us fret over, but you're probably just gonna end up biting the bullet. In my area, I was able to get new tenants to pay for their own trash...so that helped a little. I also went around my property and got rid of the water bibs. I have drought resistant landscaping, so I don't really wanna be paying for water balloon fights. I use a PM that gauges rents on a yearly basis, and increases every so often. I got really great tenants now, so temper your desire to maximize against the reliablity of great tenants.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 208 posts · 96 votes
    7y

    @Artie Wrightson @Michael Jones These tenants are on M2M and the law here is 7 days notice for increase. Taking over a lease you have to honor their existing lease until it expires. The route I'm taking is I'm actually serving notice not to extend their m2m with 6 weeks notice. Then offering them an application to apply under the new rent rates and property rules... The choice is theirs to leave or stay. The rents are 20% below market easily without factoring the utilities we've been discussing. With the amount of drama i got from 1 tenant having to pay $1.60 for a money order, I'd imagine this problem should take care of itself that way

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