unwilling to repair

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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unwilling to repair

Penny Alexander
Divernon, IL · Member since 2011 · 6 posts · 0 votes

I am renting a farm house and its old. It has 2 - 15 light exterior doors on it. The wind come in all around the doors, which have weather stripping around them and thru each of the 15 pains of glass. The doors need to be replace very bad but the owner will not replace them. I have plastic up over the whole door(s) and use the basement door which means I have to walk around the other side of the house to the driveway thru the snow, carrying groceries etc. I have also complained about the very large use of propane gas to heat this house. I have the temp set at 48 degrees and filled it 12/6 @ $600 and its almost empty already. I have closed off rooms and put a blanket up between the dining room and living room to help keep 1 room warm. I have plastic up over the windows etc. I get no help from the mgmt co. about the gas so I called the gas company myself, found 2 leaks, 1 inside and a major one outside. I need to pay my rent for this month but thinking about only paying 1/2 of it. I thought when you complained about a issue they had only 14 days to get it fixed. It is costing me a lot of money for gas and electric and I'm freezing. Can't even "live" in the whole house cause its so cold. Like today, I'm in my bedroom with a little space heater keeping me warm. It would be different if we were warm but were cold paying out the ying yang for fuel. What can I do? Can I force the landlord to make these repairs? I manage my own vacation properties and I know how things should be kept and this is unexcuseable for the landlord.

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Account Closed
Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y

have you already tried to contact the landlord? i don't think getting code enforcement and an attorney involved at step 1 is a good idea..litigation should be used as a last resort after the landlord ignores your requests ( and keeps receiving rents) --it shouldn't be used as a blanket threat each time there's something wrong with the property...first get in touch with the landlord...if the owner is using a property management company, then i'd explain the situation to them..sadly, they may not care though...is this your first winter in the house? iff there's no weatherstripping, that'd be a code violation, but you say there is weather stripping..just bc the old farmhouse isn't insulated well doesn't automatically mean there's a code violation....whatever you decide to do, definitely continue paying rent

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  • Account Closed
    Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Not sure what kind of lease you have, but I might consider telling the landlord you need to move. Are there other rentals nearby that are within your means that are in better repair? Perhaps if the landlord thinks you might move, they might want to do some repairs.

    I would not suggest a strategy of not paying the rent or a portion of it. You are probably in a good position of breaking the lease because the landlord is not properly maintaining the place.

    This very much sounds like a case of voting with your feet.

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  • Kyle Meyers
    Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 592 posts · 138 votes
    15y

    Send a request in writing and contact a lawyer. I am not sure what the laws are in your state, but in Indiana a landlord is required to provide a liveable space, which would require some of the repairs you noted. Code enforcement or a similar agency may also be able to help you.

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  • Account Closed
    Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    have you already tried to contact the landlord? i don't think getting code enforcement and an attorney involved at step 1 is a good idea..litigation should be used as a last resort after the landlord ignores your requests ( and keeps receiving rents) --it shouldn't be used as a blanket threat each time there's something wrong with the property...first get in touch with the landlord...if the owner is using a property management company, then i'd explain the situation to them..sadly, they may not care though...is this your first winter in the house? iff there's no weatherstripping, that'd be a code violation, but you say there is weather stripping..just bc the old farmhouse isn't insulated well doesn't automatically mean there's a code violation....whatever you decide to do, definitely continue paying rent

    3Reply
  • Mitch Kronowit
    SFR Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Just adding to what Bryan said, document, document, document.

    Phone calls are a good first step as are e-mails and text messages, but if the landlord is unresponsive or uncooperative, send a written letter with proof of delivery and keep a copy.

    If this ends up in a legal battle, you'll need evidence that you contacted the landlord and requested repairs. Otherwise he and his slick attorney will simply state they had no idea something was wrong with the premises.

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  • Stefan Forsberg
    Real Estate Investor · Garland, TX · Member since 2010 · 86 posts · 34 votes
    15y

    Hi Penny,

    Read up on your rights here:

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2605&ChapterID=62

    That is the Tenant landlord act for your state. Lots of good information regarding both your and your landlords rights and responsibilities.

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  • Kyle Meyers
    Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 592 posts · 138 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by BryanA:
    have you already tried to contact the landlord? i don't think getting code enforcement and an attorney involved at step 1 is a good idea..litigation should be used as a last resort after the landlord ignores your requests ( and keeps receiving rents) --it shouldn't be used as a blanket threat each time there's something wrong with the property...first get in touch with the landlord...if the owner is using a property management company, then i'd explain the situation to them..sadly, they may not care though...is this your first winter in the house? iff there's no weatherstripping, that'd be a code violation, but you say there is weather stripping..just bc the old farmhouse isn't insulated well doesn't automatically mean there's a code violation....whatever you decide to do, definitely continue paying rent

    Yes, I didn't mean not to try to work with the landlord. My impression from the original post was that you had already contacted them and they were unwilling to help. It would be best if you can contact them and get them to resolve the problem. If they won't help, then send a letter so you will have proof in the event that this goes to court, and try to find out the laws in your state by contacting local agencies or a lawyer. I would not recommend skipping or shorting rent payments unless your lease specifies that you can make repairs and deduct the costs (this is not common).

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  • Mary R.
    Investor · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 171 posts · 27 votes
    15y

    How long have you been there? How many months?
    My own opinion on this is that old buildings, including farm houses ARE drafty, are cold. I would bet that your rent is actually really pretty low. I would also bet that it's low at least in part because it's drafty.
    Most old buildings, prior to certain years, including houses in towns and cities, didn't have much, if any, insulation in them.
    My sister married and bought a not real old house in 1960, and raised 4 kids into their 20's when the last graduated from college. Then the two sons gave their parents insulation and help in putting it in/on. They lived much like you are living. In coats and boots all winter. The kitchen was somewhat warm. NONE of their exterior walls had any insulation.
    My best friend lived in such a farmhouse--large, and cold in the winter. When I stayed overnight, the girls-4 of us, snuggled both on top of, and under, thick down quilts. We were toasty warm until time to get up. Then we hustled!
    I would say, move. I would bet that if new doors were installed and other items were done, that the rent will go up. Doors are not inexpensive. If the house is uninhabitable, the landlord or the city may have you move. I don't know the law regarding that in my own state let alone yours. This is not legal advice, do not take it as such.

    1Reply
  • Marc Freislinger
    Flipper · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 973 posts · 679 votes
    15y

    I actually tend to agree with M Read.

    You're paying about $300/mo for heat. That's very average for old homes in Indy. Not to be rude, but I really don't believe you have your thermostat set at 48 degrees. That sounds very much like an exaggeration.

    The leaks they found should definitely be fixed, but have you requested it, in writing, since you found them?

    I highly doubt the door is a code violation. It is probably just old. Tenants make a LOT of requests for WANTS rather than NEEDS. You'll have to determine which this is.

    If this home does not suit your wants for a rental property, it is probably time to move on. Landlords are responsible for providing a safe, habitable property, but they don't have to cater to all requests.

    1Reply
  • Penny Alexander
    OP
    Divernon, IL · Member since 2011 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    15y

    We have been here since August 1st. I have vacation property (6) that I manage long distance and upkeep so I am not unaware of the care of property. Since I am new to this state, I thought there might be some building codes or housing authority or inspector that they would have to abide by. In Va. Beach you have to have the house inspected before it can be rented. Although, you wouldn't notice this problem unless it is cold. I plan on paying my rent but I am going to write them a letter along with it and also mail a copy to the owner. The owner himself (very wealthy) told me they don't like to put money into the house. Your right, I don't pay a lot of rent $650 but its about right for the rural area that it is in. I like the property cause it has about 3 acres on which I can park my cars, jetski, trailers, and I also drive a straight truck. I am renting until I get to know the area better to decide where I want to live. I don't expect the taj mahul but I don't expect to pay $800+ in utilities a month with the thermostat at 48 degrees!!

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  • Just Don
    Member since 2009 · 499 posts · 117 votes
    15y

    one way to warm it up is to put an air tight wood stove wherever a chimney is located and go cut some of your own firewood.

    It is certainly not NO cost, but low cost. Lots of old groves that need the dead wood cleaned out of. Might even have some given to you on Craigs list sometimes.

    Buying firewood is pricey,,,but when I burned wood for heat my house was closer to 80 degrees than 48 and keep the propane furnace as a back up.

    It took alot of wood and dedication but we kept warm getting it, hand splitting it, and hauling it. Lots of good excercise to boot.

    0Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    15y

    Could you possibly install some weatherstripping on the door and redo the glazing compound on the windows? Weather is exceptionally brutal right now. Sounds like you've been through $600 of propane in about two months. Depending on the size of the house, that's not really too bad. If you could do something about the draftiness, it would probably get better.

    1Reply
  • Penny Alexander
    OP
    Divernon, IL · Member since 2011 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    15y

    Well, 48 degrees is it believe it or not.
    After I got the gas leaks fixed I have bumped it up to 55 and am watching to see how much the tank goes down. Yep!! believe me, its cold. The doors to the kitchen both close and with the blanket up between the dining and living room I can heat that one room up pretty comfortably with the space heaters (3). When you go into the kitchen its like opening up the outside door. I hope his stupid pipes freeze. I don't complain about stuff, as I said I own 6 condos and 2 houses that I rent. I fix stuff. I have gone thru 7 tubes of caulk so far and 2 cans of foam insulation. Example, when the gas co. came I had them pull out the gas stove to check for leaks behind it and there was no baseboard behind it. A ton of cold air was coming right in. Its still not fixed. I'm tempted to fix it myself and I just may. i shouldn't have to, I have already fixed a ton of stuff around here no charge which I don't mind, the outside light was falling off, quit working, one wire came undone, I fixed it, the railing was falling off, I fixed it, faucets leaking, I fixed them. I am not a whiner but I sure don't like paying out my nose and be cold. I can't imagine what it would cost me for gas if I really did turn up the heat to 70. That would be a tank a month. I don't think so. I just feel there is a certain amount of responsibility that this landlord I know should have and its not happening. I even gave him a beautiful full length glass storm door that I had taken off another house thinking that it would help keep the wind from coming in and he still hasn't put it up yet. I think I'm going to take it down and put it on one of my condos instead, I have a limit to my kindness, the fact its been sitting here 6 months and he hasn't put it up

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  • Just Don
    Member since 2009 · 499 posts · 117 votes
    15y

    IF it will help screw it tight. The storm door will help and a few screws out of the junk drawer and your good to go.

    Put more blankets over drafty windows.

    Old houses are like that,cold and drafty. Other option is look for a better energy efficient house in town(less drafty) and natural gas is half the price of propane. You can always find a place to park.

    Your paying a high price for your location and your out of your comfort zone. Walk away.

    But remember the lesson learned when you buy,,,old houses, -midwest winters,,,,dont mix.

    Either that or a complete house make over is the ONLY way to go. Insulate, windows, doors, siding, caulking, weatherproofing all go hand in hand to make a decent house.

    Buy this house from the owner and show him how it 'should' be done!!

    Have lived in the country with propane heat,,,not any more for this veteran,,,unless I wood heat a home again.

    Corn burning stoves were good economical heat till that got high priced fuel also. Dont know economics of pellets.

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  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    15y

    The cold can be kept a bit at bay using heavy curtains or drapes over windows and doors (yes, I had some over a cold patio door in a an apartment I paid rent for many years ago). Draft blockers at the bottoms of doors and windows, and in the middle of double hung windows (where the two sashes meet). The home improvement stores have plastic sheeting in window kits to create another interior barrier. Some of these will increase comfort level while lowering heating expense.

    You've stated that you have rental properties. So, upon taking this place, did you not give it a very close inspection to determine the condition of things like windows and doors?

    1Reply
  • Penny Alexander
    OP
    Divernon, IL · Member since 2011 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    15y

    Well, to answer your question, I did not pick this place out, my husband did. I just requested a place out in the country with space. But alot of what is the problem you wouldn't have seen in the summer either. They have changed out many windows to vinyl and those are leaking as bad or worst than the wood ones. Yes I have put caulk and weather stripping around, and the plastic over the windows has helped a lot. I even pulled up a piece of siding in the middle of the wall to see if there was insulation under it which they said there was but nope! Im sure they won't let me put in a stove or i would if I was going to stay here. We heated our house 20 years ago with a buck stove and it was wonderful.

    Well, thanks for all your input, I know the answer I'm just not wanting to rock the boat. I was hoping if I got a housing authority or the like to put pressure on I'd prefer that. We'll see when I take my rent down tomorrow and talk to the boss lady what transpires.

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  • Ryan B.
    Investor · -, IL · Member since 2010 · 409 posts · 616 votes
    15y

    Penny,

    Sorry for this long post, but I just want to give you some helpful info as I have lived within a 1/2 hour of your location all of my life.

    Speaking from experience (as I live in a 120 year old victorian house), your heating bills are going to be large no matter what. You say you are paying about $300 a month for propane. That is not bad, my bill last month from the natural gas company was $300 and usually natural gas is going to be cheaper than propane. We have had some exceptionally brutal weather here recently.

    It is correct that older houses like these are not insulated very well at all. I can walk from one room in my house to another and there can be at least a 10 degree difference in temperaure. Eventhough there were replacement windows put in, most of the time this does not help alot in real old homes unless they insulate the track area where the original window weight was located (9 times out of 10 this is not done). No matter how much insulating, caulking, spray foaming, etc you do, old houses are energy hogs.

    Just to let you know, $650 for a house in the country with 3 acres is a steal. I have a 3 bed 1 bath house in a town about 15 minutes from you that is on an average city lot that rents for $895.

    2Reply
  • Ryan B.
    Investor · -, IL · Member since 2010 · 409 posts · 616 votes
    15y

    Penny,

    I still stand by my last post, but it just clicked in my head who your landlord might be (gotta love the small town midwest). I am not trying to bash anyone, but if it is a local attorney with the initials JN, I would try to move once the lease is up.

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  • Nick Henson
    Real Estate Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2011 · 74 posts · 17 votes
    15y

    Send your landlord a certified mail. You need everything documented and the advices here are very much correct, do not hold back on rent, that will only get you into trouble and you will somehow lose leverage.

    Tell your land lord that you will report him to the health and safety board.

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