Rental Property Investor · Flat Rock, MI · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 8 votes
I have 2 rental properties that are run by a property manager. The first one I purchased in April and the second one in June. Currently they both have tenants. On the lease, it states clearly that the tenant can not live on the property with pets. I found out from a neighbor recently that my first house has pets and went to my newest property today to find out that they have both cats and dogs. So i am 2 for 2 on pets when the least says no pets. I am not 100% against pets so i am willing to negotiate with the tenant. Has anyone ever been in this situation and if so what did you do? Is it worth evicting the tenant because of this? Do i need to redo the tenant agreement to get a deposit or raise rents?
Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 300 posts · 168 votes
8y
Hi Stephen,
Although I have never been in this situation, I would say you should negotiate a per-month "pet rent" that is often seen with rentals. Depending on the situation, pet rent could be $20-100 per pet. Additionally, you could charge a penalty fee and take it out of the tenant's deposit if they go against the agreed upon terms.
Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
Are these inherited tenants....? Chances are they're going to say they had permission and then magically you're not going to be able to find it etc... I'd offer them the opportunity to have the lease amended to account for the pets (with pet rent) or the opportunity to break the lease and find somewhere else if they don't want to pay the rent.
This gives them the choice and you a chance of not having to deal w/ turnover/eviction. With little luck, you get extra money each month. Then at the end of the lease switch over to a new lease..... that's clean etc.
Rental Property Investor · Flat Rock, MI · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 8 votes
8y
@Rob Beardsley Thanks for the reply. I was thinking the same. Do I just ask my property manager to get them to sign an addendum to the lease and if they do not sign, evict them? These are my first properties so i am just happy i have tenant and do not want to go through the process of having to find new ones. But i guess the cost to find new ones would be less if the pets destroy the house.
@Mike Cumbie I appreciate the advice. Yea its unfortunate that they signed a document saying they do not have pets. Pretty obvious if you drive by the place.
@Terre B. I assume my property manager drives by, but i live close so i drive by from time to time. The first house the insurance company noticed the dog when looking at the house. The tenant denied the allegations and signed a form that stated he did not have a dog. I made friends with the guy across the street and he said he has a dog. You can not see the dog in the fence if you just drive by. I have only had that for 3 months so i guess my property manager has not yet done a check up on the inside. My second home, i actually drove by last week and did not see any dogs. I went to fix something today (they did not know i was the owner) and saw 2 dogs in the backyard with a beware of dog sign on the fence (that was not there last week). Inside there was at least 1 cat. The tenants have not even been there for a month.
You need to rewrite your leases and have your tenants sign them. If you do not care that they have pets in a property with a no pet policy your lease is null and void. If you are not in a position to rewrite your lease you must enforce it as written...no pets means no pets. Let them know they must get rid of the animals or you evict.
Never allow any lease to have language you have no intention of enforcing. A lease is a legal contract. Change it or inforce it.
Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 300 posts · 168 votes
8y
Hi again. Are these long-term, stable tenants? If these are otherwise great tenants, it might not be worth it to evict them. However, if they refuse to sign the addendum to the lease (assuming the new conditions are reasonable), they are not desirable tenants for you to keep.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
8y
@Stephen Meche
I would post up a notice to comply or face eviction . You just enforce the lease and life will be easier .dont be a push over and agree to the animals. It’s your place with your rules . it’s a serious matter, because it sets the ground work on where you stand and how you fIrmly plan to manage the property
Rental Property Investor · Flat Rock, MI · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 8 votes
8y
@Matt K. No, they were tenants that applied, passed the PMs criteria (our agreed upon), and agreed to the lease. Yea i agree with you here and this seems to be the most logical way to approach it. I will most likely go that route. Would you ask for a non-refundable pet deposit and increase rent or just one or the other?
@Thomas S. Thanks for the advice and great point. What is the purpose of the lease if it is not enforced.
Rental Property Investor · Flat Rock, MI · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 8 votes
8y
@Rob Beardsley Funny you mention that. When i was over at the property, they had no idea that i was the owner. Its funny the things they tell you. They mentioned that the would at most be there 6 month (even though they signed a 12M lease). I passed that long to my property manager as well.
@Dennis M. Thanks again for the advice. I will let my property manager know i want to go that direction.
Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Stephen Meche Just be aware if you push back too hard they can easily go online and get an emotional support animal letter and you will loose the ability to charge an additional deposit, evict, or do anything else other than say "ok, you win".
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
Sounds like you are doing more managing than the PM! Time to find a new one or cut out the middle man and do it yourself. I lay this squarely at their feet. They are the hired stewards of your investment, and so far everyone else but them has noticed the lease violations. From what you've shared so far, it looks like they are not adding much value to your business. Even odds says that there are pics of these pets on their social media accounts. You are not paying them to be forwarded information you collected by managing your own property.
Even though some responsibility is borne by the PM here, from where I sit this is also a huge strike against the tenants, who basically are thumbing their nose at your rules and the lease they signed. It appears they have a disregard for your policies. Don't let that point be lost on you.
After you change PMs, I would make it clear to these tenants that there is a "new sheriff in town" and the lease is a binding, legal contract which you take very seriously. So, either (1) "notice to cure" or face eviction, or (2) resign this lease with a higher monthly rate that incorporates pet rent. And a serious sit down talk with these people.
Either way, mitigate your damage and use this as a learning lesson for the next tenant.
Investor · Wilmington, NC · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 9 votes
8y
People don't usually put up a "Beware of Dog" sign for no reason...they either think there's a potential for a bite - thinking that posting a sign will ease their liability in case of a bite, or animal control has mandated they must have the sign up (usually more than 1 though - here in Wilmington, you must have 4 in plain view) in the case of an animal being deemed potentially dangerous....also they told you outright they are planning on breaking your lease by half a year....may want to get the ball rolling on these folks. Take a pic of their faces when you let them know that you are the owner not just the handyman
1. The lease is there for a reason. Serve the Notice to Quit. This will let the tenants know you are not fooling around. If it comes to it then evict them.
2. If after the notice is served they wish to remain you can always amend the lease if YOU so feel. There is a $200 non refundable pet deposit and a monthly charge of $25 PER pet.
3. You need to talk with the management company. They should be finding this out not you. If you decide to keep them on you should be networking with other companies in case your manager drops the ball again. The time to find a replacement is now (even if you are not going to use them). It is much easier do the research and build that relationship now then when you need to fire your manager and find another.
4. Every new tenant has a sit down with me and we go over the lease line by line with initials (theirs and mine) at the bottom of each page. This way any questions can be taken care of then and they can never use the 'ol "i wasn't aware of that" excuse, not that it really matters but it does make things a bit simpler when problems arise.
Final thought, What's gonna be next? Tenants are like children most of the time. Once you look the other way on one tiny thing they do more and more and more, they keep taking until you have a real problem.
You need to rewrite your leases and have your tenants sign them. If you do not care that they have pets in a property with a no pet policy your lease is null and void. If you are not in a position to rewrite your lease you must enforce it as written...no pets means no pets. Let them know they must get rid of the animals or you evict.
Never allow any lease to have language you have no intention of enforcing. A lease is a legal contract. Change it or inforce it.
If you do not care that they have pets in a property with a no pet policy your lease is null and void
@Neil Schoepp Thanks for your feedback. I am going to take your advice on #1. On #2, i have been researching today what people typically charge. What you stated sounds close to what i was thinking. Good information on #3 and #4. I know talking with my PM, he states the same as you do on #4.
@Michael Plante what i meant by that was i am not so against pets that my first thing to do would be evict. I have 2 dogs myself and have learned most people have pets. I have warmed up to the idea more and probably will consider adding verbiage that you can have a pet and it will cost you X in a nonrefundable deposit and X/month per pet.
Broker · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 351 posts · 273 votes
8y
It's a bad sign to have new tenants already violating the lease, whats next? I don't allow pets and would send the tenants notice that their animals or they and their animals will soon be leaving. Don't be surprised if they pull the "emotional support" animal scam. (Search the forums for that recent discussion.) If you do choose to allow them to keep the animals I would amend the lease with clauses addressing the pets, charge deposits, and require that the tenants show proof of renters insurance covering the animals if they would cause harm to anyone. As always, don't trust the internet, seek professional advice. Good luck!
Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes
8y
@Stephen Meche Pets add risk and you should be compensated for the risk...just like your rents compensate you for rentals in a lower class area. All large apartments charge pet deposits and pet rent. You should at minimum get a pet deposit. My lease has a $500 fine per pet and I think a daily fee...on my no pet properties. What kind of flooring? Apartments also require a pro carpet cleaning and flea certificate at move out.
Rental Property Investor · Flat Rock, MI · Member since 2017 · 18 posts · 8 votes
8y
@Marian Smith I agree with you that they add risk and i should be compensated. I have wood floors on the first floor and on the 2nd floor (including stairs) is the short industrial type carpet. And yes, i would assume the whole house would need a deep cleaning afterwards.
This may be resolved by now, just wanted to add that if they pull the "ESA" card (emotional support animal) it sounds like you may be exempt (landlords owning <3 SFH not leased by realtor are exempt). You can buy the ESA letters online so it's an easy way to over ride LL's pet policies, and given that your tenants are out of the gate liars, I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't pop up. Fortunately, most scammers don't know the law they are trying to exploit very well, including the exemptions.
Real Estate Consultant · Salt Lake City · Member since 2018 · 61 posts · 48 votes
8y
The first thing that came to my mind was also that they might pull the "ESA" card. We make all residents who have an ESA provide us with the paper work. This may not be your situation now (maybe you are exempt, I can't speak to that), but it might be useful down the road to know how to address that issue. I have found that most of the time when confronted with this paperwork, the residents will just resign to classifying their animal as a "pet" which comes with a $150 Pet Deposit, $350 Pet Fee, and $55 Pet Rent per month per animal. I will attach some of the forms that we use for your reference. (As a disclaimer: You need to know the laws where you are at. This is for educational purposes )
Landlord who owns less than 3 single family homes for rental and does not use a realtor is exempt from requirement to allow ESA in their rentals. There are also some exemptions based on whether the LL resides in the unit. I think I read you only have two SFH rentals which is why I mentioned it. Look up the rules so you know where you stand when you get hit with it. Don't use ESA support websites to get the rules either, as they for obvious reasons don't mention the exemptions or do so erroneously.
If you do not care that they have pets in a property with a no pet policy your lease is null and void
Really?
Obviously. When all parties of a legal contract are aware it is violated that opens the door for future violations based on allowing the first violation. If you do not enforce a contract when a violation occurs there is a valid argument to show all future violations are unenforceable. A precited has been set.
You can not arbitrarily choose which parts of a legal contract you should or should not enforce. If you are not going to enforce the language in a legal contract (lease) you must rewrite and sign a new lease.
If you do not care that they have pets in a property with a no pet policy your lease is null and void
Really?
Obviously. When all parties of a legal contract are aware it is violated that opens the door for future violations based on allowing the first violation. If you do not enforce a contract when a violation occurs there is a valid argument to show all future violations are unenforceable. A precited has been set.
You can not arbitrarily choose which parts of a legal contract you should or should not enforce. If you are not going to enforce the language in a legal contract (lease) you must rewrite and sign a new lease.
Thomas can you cite a single instance where this has been a valid tenant defense in court?