Tenant moved out and so did the mechanical equipment... more....
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 390 votes
Tenant moved out and so did the mechanical equipment... more....
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Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2017 · 310 posts · 271 votes
8yIf it were me I would file a police report and then file an insurance claim. That's what insurance is for, let your insurance company go after them. Meanwhile you'll end up with a nice newly updated property, you can raise the rent.
If you let them take you for a free ride it also just encourages them to abuse the next landlord.
98 Replies
- Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 390 votes8y
Originally posted by @Clint E.:
Do you want a reputation as a landlord who doesn't go after people who take from them?
Clint, no, this is not my reputation, what I am saying is times and events predicate the needed resolution, if this is one home of mine and this is part of a small cohort of homes lets say (6), maybe I would be more emotional about it, maybe if I was newer or more novice I would be more enthusiastic of making hell around this issue, but the question boils down what is the best and most cost-effective use of your time. Usually, incidents that are outliers are not ones that command lots of brain power, they need a simple business solution. Do not get me wrong I am the first to wave the flag of discipline and being relentless and through screening and being patient in placing tenants, but sometimes **it happens!! - you have to stay composed and make the best business decision, that's all, not about reputation here.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Steven Gesis:
Originally posted by @Tyler Mullen:
If it were me I would file a police report and then file an insurance claim. That's what insurance is for, let your insurance company go after them. Meanwhile you'll end up with a nice newly updated property, you can raise the rent.
If you let them take you for a free ride it also just encourages them to abuse the next landlord.
It is something I am weighing, I am just thinking about the ramifications, having a sizeable portfolio does it make sense recording the claim, paying the $1500 deductible - claim as theft ? Have had what I thought experienced everything you can possibly encounter, this is something new.
I had a home I bought as new construction and the tenant did what we estimated as 40k in damage.. I turned that over to my insurance and they paid it.. as it was not normal wear and tear and they went after them criminally and did not affect my rates.. I think we want to be cautious about being afraid to file a claim.. I file when ever I think I need to. its not really like auto insurance were I know you don't want to file a claim for a fender bender.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Steven Gesis buying courthouse steps houses over the last 3 decades I have this happen about once every 5 years by the time I buy it and I get possession its down to the sheetrock LOL.. not much we can do about that.
- Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 390 votes8y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Steven Gesis buying courthouse steps houses over the last 3 decades I have this happen about once every 5 years by the time I buy it and I get possession its down to the sheetrock LOL.. not much we can do about that.
Exactly, sometimes nothing you can do, just roll with the punches, look at the big picture
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Steven Gesis:
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Two toilets = $400
Two vanities = $800
Furnace = $2,000
Hot water tank = $1,000
Kitchen cabinets and sink = $3,000
Kitchen appliances = $2,000
You're looking at approximately $9,000 in losses. Why would you willingly eat the cost and let the criminal go free? if that's the way you do business, please hire me as your accountant!
Seriously, you should press charges immediately. You should have all the tenant's information so law enforcement can track them down quickly. Even if you don't recover your stuff, the criminal should be punished and it would save some other Landlord from falling prey.
Nathan-
This is a lite version of the cost :)
On my end having a few hundred single-family doors now, I am always caught at this crossing with what to do, do you take it as a business expense and move-on as this is an outlier.
Lets be frank, what will the police do? This is not a case they will want to place much attention to, I can file, I can make it super tough on the people, the result will be minimal - I do not think they will haul them off to jail. Jail will not solve my loss issue.
Insurance is a maybe still....
Its not about having a ton of capital and having expendable or available resources, its merely a business decision, not an emotional one, it sucks it happened, but its just an issue that needs to be handled, the question is what is the most effective time of handling this issue.
I value my time @ $300/hr. plus an attorney on the low end will be $200/hr. - then a few people on my staff and a ding on my insurance - all I am saying is that I am already halfway to $10k, I can just bite the bullet make a business decision and just handle it. Maybe you right, maybe at least file the insurance claim.
When you file a report with the police, this is just the beginning of the process, as you saw I referenced my cost of time above, filing a police complaint will take hours and hours and hours if they do nab him, then more hours and more hours..... I can spend this time thinking about making more investments and figure out how I can recoop the loss as quickly and effectively as possible.
I have filed police reports and insurance claims and your time estimates are way over from my experience. Police report will take an hour tops. The guy had access to the property and had motive. They may go to question the guy and find some of the stuff sitting out in plain sight. Or you could go look on Craigslist and you may find the stuff up there for sale. Then the police can arrange to meet the person to buy it and he will be arrested. Worst case you file the report and nothing comes of it, but at least you made some effort to stop this guy from doing it to the next landlord.
I am surprised how many people just dismiss calling the police with the assumption they will do nothing. It would take 5 minutes to call them, less time than you have spent here on BP. As far as where time is better spent, I guarantee nobody on BP will recover your belongings, but there is a chance with the police.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Steven Gesis:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Steven Gesis buying courthouse steps houses over the last 3 decades I have this happen about once every 5 years by the time I buy it and I get possession its down to the sheetrock LOL.. not much we can do about that.
Exactly, sometimes nothing you can do, just roll with the punches, look at the big picture
where its devastating is the new investors who this happens to on their first purchase or the owner on the way out destroys it as well .. a lot of time that investor is one and done never to recover.
- Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 390 votes8y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Steven Gesis:
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Two toilets = $400
Two vanities = $800
Furnace = $2,000
Hot water tank = $1,000
Kitchen cabinets and sink = $3,000
Kitchen appliances = $2,000
You're looking at approximately $9,000 in losses. Why would you willingly eat the cost and let the criminal go free? if that's the way you do business, please hire me as your accountant!
Seriously, you should press charges immediately. You should have all the tenant's information so law enforcement can track them down quickly. Even if you don't recover your stuff, the criminal should be punished and it would save some other Landlord from falling prey.
Nathan-
This is a lite version of the cost :)
On my end having a few hundred single-family doors now, I am always caught at this crossing with what to do, do you take it as a business expense and move-on as this is an outlier.
Lets be frank, what will the police do? This is not a case they will want to place much attention to, I can file, I can make it super tough on the people, the result will be minimal - I do not think they will haul them off to jail. Jail will not solve my loss issue.
Insurance is a maybe still....
Its not about having a ton of capital and having expendable or available resources, its merely a business decision, not an emotional one, it sucks it happened, but its just an issue that needs to be handled, the question is what is the most effective time of handling this issue.
I value my time @ $300/hr. plus an attorney on the low end will be $200/hr. - then a few people on my staff and a ding on my insurance - all I am saying is that I am already halfway to $10k, I can just bite the bullet make a business decision and just handle it. Maybe you right, maybe at least file the insurance claim.
When you file a report with the police, this is just the beginning of the process, as you saw I referenced my cost of time above, filing a police complaint will take hours and hours and hours if they do nab him, then more hours and more hours..... I can spend this time thinking about making more investments and figure out how I can recoop the loss as quickly and effectively as possible.
I have filed police reports and insurance claims and your time estimates are way over from my experience. Police report will take an hour tops. The guy had access to the property and had motive. They may go to question the guy and find some of the stuff sitting out in plain sight. Or you could go look on Craigslist and you may find the stuff up there for sale. Then the police can arrange to meet the person to buy it and he will be arrested. Worst case you file the report and nothing comes of it, but at least you made some effort to stop this guy from doing it to the next landlord.
I am surprised how many people just dismiss calling the police with the assumption they will do nothing. It would take 5 minutes to call them, less time than you have spent here on BP. As far as where time is better spent, I guarantee nobody on BP will recover your belongings, but there is a chance with the police.
Joe, good point! I am not discounting the police report nor the insurance claim, I am just saying things happen and maybe you just need to spend time making the business decision and then sharing the wealth of information on BP :)
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Steven Gesis:
Originally posted by @Tyler Mullen:
If it were me I would file a police report and then file an insurance claim. That's what insurance is for, let your insurance company go after them. Meanwhile you'll end up with a nice newly updated property, you can raise the rent.
If you let them take you for a free ride it also just encourages them to abuse the next landlord.
It is something I am weighing, I am just thinking about the ramifications, having a sizeable portfolio does it make sense recording the claim, paying the $1500 deductible - claim as theft ? Have had what I thought experienced everything you can possibly encounter, this is something new.
I had a home I bought as new construction and the tenant did what we estimated as 40k in damage.. I turned that over to my insurance and they paid it.. as it was not normal wear and tear and they went after them criminally and did not affect my rates.. I think we want to be cautious about being afraid to file a claim.. I file when ever I think I need to. its not really like auto insurance were I know you don't want to file a claim for a fender bender.
Exactly. I had a landlord file a claim on me one time over clean up that he gave permission to do - remove a broken-down screened in porch that was collapsed and a tore up rug in the living room. After I moved out, he claimed to to his insurance company that I had damaged the property and they cut him a fat check, then tried to abrogate against me. They got $500 out of me and no admission of wrongdoing, only because that was cheaper than continuing to pay my lawyer - although I have to admit I was seriously tempted to keep paying the lawyer out of principal. But $500 versus several thousand is a lot of principal ;)
Skyline Properties Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Two toilets = $400
Two vanities = $800
Furnace = $2,000
Hot water tank = $1,000
Kitchen cabinets and sink = $3,000
Kitchen appliances = $2,000
You're looking at approximately $9,000 in losses. Why would you willingly eat the cost and let the criminal go free? if that's the way you do business, please hire me as your accountant!
Seriously, you should press charges immediately. You should have all the tenant's information so law enforcement can track them down quickly. Even if you don't recover your stuff, the criminal should be punished and it would save some other Landlord from falling prey.
THIS. If someone did that to my rental you can rest assured I would get LE involved, sue them, and go to every media outlet in the country until this story shows up on the front page of Yahoo. Mess with me and I mess back...
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Steven Gesis:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Steven Gesis:
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Two toilets = $400
Two vanities = $800
Furnace = $2,000
Hot water tank = $1,000
Kitchen cabinets and sink = $3,000
Kitchen appliances = $2,000
You're looking at approximately $9,000 in losses. Why would you willingly eat the cost and let the criminal go free? if that's the way you do business, please hire me as your accountant!
Seriously, you should press charges immediately. You should have all the tenant's information so law enforcement can track them down quickly. Even if you don't recover your stuff, the criminal should be punished and it would save some other Landlord from falling prey.
Nathan-
This is a lite version of the cost :)
On my end having a few hundred single-family doors now, I am always caught at this crossing with what to do, do you take it as a business expense and move-on as this is an outlier.
Lets be frank, what will the police do? This is not a case they will want to place much attention to, I can file, I can make it super tough on the people, the result will be minimal - I do not think they will haul them off to jail. Jail will not solve my loss issue.
Insurance is a maybe still....
Its not about having a ton of capital and having expendable or available resources, its merely a business decision, not an emotional one, it sucks it happened, but its just an issue that needs to be handled, the question is what is the most effective time of handling this issue.
I value my time @ $300/hr. plus an attorney on the low end will be $200/hr. - then a few people on my staff and a ding on my insurance - all I am saying is that I am already halfway to $10k, I can just bite the bullet make a business decision and just handle it. Maybe you right, maybe at least file the insurance claim.
When you file a report with the police, this is just the beginning of the process, as you saw I referenced my cost of time above, filing a police complaint will take hours and hours and hours if they do nab him, then more hours and more hours..... I can spend this time thinking about making more investments and figure out how I can recoop the loss as quickly and effectively as possible.
I have filed police reports and insurance claims and your time estimates are way over from my experience. Police report will take an hour tops. The guy had access to the property and had motive. They may go to question the guy and find some of the stuff sitting out in plain sight. Or you could go look on Craigslist and you may find the stuff up there for sale. Then the police can arrange to meet the person to buy it and he will be arrested. Worst case you file the report and nothing comes of it, but at least you made some effort to stop this guy from doing it to the next landlord.
I am surprised how many people just dismiss calling the police with the assumption they will do nothing. It would take 5 minutes to call them, less time than you have spent here on BP. As far as where time is better spent, I guarantee nobody on BP will recover your belongings, but there is a chance with the police.
Joe, good point! I am not discounting the police report nor the insurance claim, I am just saying things happen and maybe you just need to spend time making the business decision and then sharing the wealth of information on BP :)
I do appreciate you sharing. I have never had one of my houses cleaned out like this, but I would be very interested to see how the police and insurance handle it.
- Lender · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2017 · 658 posts · 626 votes8y
The odds are the police won't be able to solve this crime. But reporting the theft to the police might be required by the insurance company and it also puts the details into the police crime data base.
When my house in San Jose, California was burglarized twice in the 1980s, I had the police come out (non-emergency phone call) to take the report and dust for finger prints. The police asked me if I knew of any suspects (I didn't). Nothing was ever recovered, but I provided the police report numbers to my homeowner insurance company as part of filing a claim. Filing a false police report is a crime in itself, so the insurance company had a stronger reason to believe me and my claim.
The police see patterns individual citizens cannot see. For example, when there was a rash of burglaries many years ago in San Jose, the police noticed the same burglar alarm saleman showed up right away after each one (in some cases, arriving to the burglarized home before they did). It didn't take the police long to solve that crime spree.
The theft in the OP's case might have been spite-motivated as a way to "get even" (if in fact the items were stolen by the evicted tenant). But most burglaries are motivated by economics. Once something is stolen, it has to be fenced to make it pay off. The police know where fenced merchandise is often taken for resale (craigslist, Ebay, and so forth) and have officers monitoring these sites. Before the Internet, undercover officers would attend the weekly San Jose flea market to look for goods that had been reported stolen.
Some police departments also set up sting operations where they buy the stolen merchandise themselves and take names and other information for a mass arrest operation when the sting operation is shut down. Word gets around the criminal element that these storefront operations are a good deal and then to their surprise, they get busted months later.
- All Over, USA · Member since 2017 · 689 posts · 756 votes8y
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
First, WTF.
Second, I like @Aaron Hunt ' s idea of sending a 1099
Third, I would involve the police. I had my car broken into forever ago, they took my radar detector and some crap but they threw a lit cigarette on my seat and burned the fabric on my brand new car. The guy I thought did it was a person the police was watching.... anyway, 6 years later they called me and got a DNA match on the cigarette butt and wanted to know if I wanted to press charges. I never knew they did a DNA test and can't believe they actually caught the guy so many years later
That's awesome but also a tremendous waste of taxpayer money...LOL. What's the statute of limitations on a burnt car seat?
- All Over, USA · Member since 2017 · 689 posts · 756 votes8y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
@Aaron Hunt I would agree if this were an ordinary theft with an unknown person committing the crime. In this case, he knows exactly who did it and when it happened (approximately). It wouldn't be hard for the police to get a warrant and track the guy down. They may get lucky and find some of the stolen items. If not, at least it's on record which would help him recover the loss.
I also disagree that there's "nothing to recover." Odds are good that everything could be reinstalled, cutting his losses to a minimum AND he could still go after the guy for anything broken plus the cost of reinstalling.
Maybe you guys live in crazy part of town where cops don't care, $10,000 can be written off, and you don't mind letting criminals go free. That ain't my world.
Well I live in Vegas right now where the police don't really respond for relatively serious issues, mostly cause they're too busy policing the knuckleheads who can't hold their liquor down on the strip.
How is he "going after the guy" when the guy has no money to begin with? Most people in a relatively comfortable financial situation (the ones worth going after) aren't stealing a bunch of stuff upon eviction/move-out. You planning on garnishing wages from his day job as a thief?
- All Over, USA · Member since 2017 · 689 posts · 756 votes8y
- Once you get the new appliances and the property cleaned redone and back to where it needs to be . Please shoot me a message before you fill the vacancy . ...I’d love to rent a nice place from a guy like you !!
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
I like to think - what if it was me? What if some previous landlord had these tenants and they stole and the landlord couldn't be bothered and thus I let them move in, because they seemed to have a spotless record?
What if the previous landlord had bothered and thought about other landlords that will encounter those people? I wouldn't have rented to them.
And maybe this is not the first time these people did this and previous landlords couldn't be bothered with filing and thus you never knew about their previous behavior and rented to them? If there had been a judgment against them in small claims court you probably wouldn't have rented to them.
Maybe think about the fact, that this might be bigger than your monthly fee and that you'd hope that other landlords would have done something to warn you about tenant like this.
- Lender · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2017 · 658 posts · 626 votes8y
Originally posted by @Aaron Hunt:
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
First, WTF.
Second, I like @Aaron Hunt ' s idea of sending a 1099
Third, I would involve the police. I had my car broken into forever ago, they took my radar detector and some crap but they threw a lit cigarette on my seat and burned the fabric on my brand new car. The guy I thought did it was a person the police was watching.... anyway, 6 years later they called me and got a DNA match on the cigarette butt and wanted to know if I wanted to press charges. I never knew they did a DNA test and can't believe they actually caught the guy so many years later
That's awesome but also a tremendous waste of taxpayer money...LOL. What's the statute of limitations on a burnt car seat?
If the police can get a DNA warrant, the statue of limitations is suspended until they find the suspect.
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Aaron Hunt:
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:
First, WTF.
Second, I like @Aaron Hunt ' s idea of sending a 1099
Third, I would involve the police. I had my car broken into forever ago, they took my radar detector and some crap but they threw a lit cigarette on my seat and burned the fabric on my brand new car. The guy I thought did it was a person the police was watching.... anyway, 6 years later they called me and got a DNA match on the cigarette butt and wanted to know if I wanted to press charges. I never knew they did a DNA test and can't believe they actually caught the guy so many years later
That's awesome but also a tremendous waste of taxpayer money...LOL. What's the statute of limitations on a burnt car seat?
I think they did it cause they had suspected him of something much worse, and I believe that other case had DNA evidence. It turned out it wasn't that guy, it was a 16 year old. So I just asked if pressing charges would help their current case, they said no, so I didn't
Second City Real Estate4.821 Reviews - Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2018 · 20 posts · 10 votes8y
That's definitely out of the ordinary. Well, I may not be a lawyer or have a background in criminal justice but I would certainly file a police report at the very least. It is stolen property after all.
- Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 390 votes8y
Originally posted by @Dennis M.:
Once you get the new appliances and the property cleaned redone and back to where it needs to be . Please shoot me a message before you fill the vacancy . ...I’d love to rent a nice place from a guy like you !!
Yes, come on over, but you will need to pass a background check....
I may have failed to mention that I acquired this tenant when I got the property, so my team did not place them, maybe this clarity will help you out
- Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 390 votes8y
Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
I like to think - what if it was me? What if some previous landlord had these tenants and they stole and the landlord couldn't be bothered and thus I let them move in, because they seemed to have a spotless record?
What if the previous landlord had bothered and thought about other landlords that will encounter those people? I wouldn't have rented to them.
And maybe this is not the first time these people did this and previous landlords couldn't be bothered with filing and thus you never knew about their previous behavior and rented to them? If there had been a judgment against them in small claims court you probably wouldn't have rented to them.
Maybe think about the fact, that this might be bigger than your monthly fee and that you'd hope that other landlords would have done something to warn you about tenant like this.
Michaela-
If you file a charge and it goes nowhere, unfortunately, the result will still be that these are phantom thieves :) But you have a valid point as a landlord this information would be helpful to me.
Did you talk to your insurance broker about the rate ramifications? Depending on the type of claim, the rates may not change as much as some people may think.
As for the police report, I would just do it. It will take your staff a few hours at most.
My question to you is how do you know if it is the tenant? Removing and taking that much fixture is not easy. That's especially if the tenant did not have enough money to pay for rent. Perhaps you may want to look into this to see if you have a different kind of security issue.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
- Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2017 · 171 posts · 165 votes8y
yes you should file a police report. No, a police report does not take “hours and hours” to file. I’d also talk to my independent insurance agent about whether to file a claim, a call that would take maybe 5 minutes.
If you steal from me, I will be following up. Internet dick measuring re the “value of my time” would not factor into this one iota.
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
@Aaron Hunt I would agree if this were an ordinary theft with an unknown person committing the crime. In this case, he knows exactly who did it and when it happened (approximately). It wouldn't be hard for the police to get a warrant and track the guy down. They may get lucky and find some of the stolen items. If not, at least it's on record which would help him recover the loss.
I also disagree that there's "nothing to recover." Odds are good that everything could be reinstalled, cutting his losses to a minimum AND he could still go after the guy for anything broken plus the cost of reinstalling.
Maybe you guys live in crazy part of town where cops don't care, $10,000 can be written off, and you don't mind letting criminals go free. That ain't my world.
It is your world, you just do not realize that it is your world.
@steven gesis did not mention a witness or any other physical evidence linking the tenant to the theft/burglary.
Did the tenant strip the house? Very likely. If the tenant did not strip the house, did the tenant coordinate with another person to strip the house? Very likely. If the tenant did not coordinate with another person to strip the house, did the tenant provide access to the house so that the house could be stripped by an "unknown" person? Very likely.
Prove it.
Especially in 2018.
Best case scenario, file a police report for the insurance claim. If it is a small town police department, maybe the case is assigned to an officer or detective. If the tenant can be located and is nearby, maybe the police interview him. If the tenant is dumb enough to be interviewed, then maybe he admits to "something." If he admits to "something" maybe some property is recovered and an arrest is made.
If this occurred in a large city, there will be little or no action taken by the police department, ABSENT a witness or physical evidence (video from the business across the street showing the tenant hauling the furnace etc. out the front door and onto a truck.)
DL
- 8yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ voteswhy to file a police report? -it can help police identify a pattern -it can be the crime that finally allows an offender to be prosecuted -it can make the offense less rewarding for the perpertrator even if they arent prosecuted -it puts the criminal on other peoples radar - it supports your insurance claim No, its not necessarily of value to your business in the short run but I believe it is of value to society so I would report it -
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