Tenants: "Sign off on move out condition or you can't show house"

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Tenants: "Sign off on move out condition or you can't show house"

Dana Holland
Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 12 votes

Tenants lease is up on the 31st (next Monday). They have been overly-entitled and argumentative throughout the lease.  We have the home on the market to sell and their lease states that they will allow us to show it when given 24 hour notice.  Throughout this month they have refused to leave the house for any showings and on a few occasions have told us that a showing request wasn't convenient for them as they are packing and moving.  We have been understanding about this and let it slide even though we feel as though they are not holding up their side of the lease.

Now they tell us that they have moved out of the house completely, and they want us to meet today to sign off on the condition of the home.  They gave us less than 24 hours notice about this move out inspection request.  They go on to say that if we don't meet and actually provide a signature affirming the condition of the home, that they won't let us show it for the next week as they cannot come back to the home to check the condition after each showing (as if a prospective buyer might take a sledgehammer to the walls??).  

So what to do?? On one hand we really want to take possession back asap, but this week and the next couple of days in particular are not convenient at all for us.  We would have to really rearrange our schedules to make it happen and even then we could probably meet for 20 minutes and do a quick, non thorough walk through.  If I tell them that we can meet but we won't sign off, I'm sure they will vehemently argue that it is required of us to sign off (I don't think it is).  

Any tips appreciated!  (By the way, in AZ the tenants can be present for the walk through if they request). 

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Levi T.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

Your the landlord, you set the rules, not them. So get to it. 

 Tenants can say whatever they want. They have abandoned the property. Do what you want, just make sure you give them proper notice according to the law and what not. Don't let them tell you how to run your property or what to do.

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  • Levi T.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Your the landlord, you set the rules, not them. So get to it. 

     Tenants can say whatever they want. They have abandoned the property. Do what you want, just make sure you give them proper notice according to the law and what not. Don't let them tell you how to run your property or what to do.

    3Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    9y

    You set the terms , not the tenant . Me I would just wait till the 31 st , Send   them certified mail stating the final walk thru will be some time middle of the week around 10 am . If they dont like it or cant be there thats too bad for them 

    2Reply
  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Dana Holland

    At this point I would just wait the 6 days. Since you are too busy to walk through, I am guessing you would be too busy to get it fixed up or show it. I would let them know that their lease is until the 31st and you plan on walking through the property on (insert date) and they are welcome to be there. You will then be figuring out the cost of repairs and sending them the remaining deposit by (Insert date within legal parameters). I am guessing they have a right to be there, but you do not have to explain anything to them at the time. You should have a checklist and go through it. Once you have things repaired and know actual costs you can refund. Not sign off or estimate before hand.

    2Reply
  • Kristina Heimstaedt
    Real Estate Agent · Newport Beach, CA · Member since 2017 · 259 posts · 293 votes
    9y

    @Dana Holland

    I would absolutely echo @Mike Cumbie and handling things by the books. As a side note, I'd change the locks on the first. I highly doubt that they would make the effort to come back and do something that would harm the property, but it doesn't hurt to be sure. 

    1Reply
  • Lynn McGeein
    Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Just wanted to add that your landlord tenant laws should guide you in timing and notice for walk-through inspection at end.  Tenant usually has a right to attend, but you have the right to set up a reasonable time and notify them in writing within 7 or 10 days, or however your landlord/tenant laws allow.   Whenever you have a troubling tenant, follow the rules and make note (pictures, notices sent certified, etc.) that you have followed all rules.  landlord/tenant laws should also state exactly how long you have to return the deposit and itemize repairs, so it doesn't matter what they say.   And they don't actually have  the  right to deny you access to your property if it states in their lease that  you are allowed to show it with 24-hour notice.  It would be up to them to check up on you after each showing  if they are truly worried about condition changing.  Alternatively, they should have just taken a zillion photos the day they left for proof if something changed.  So I'd continue to show and just follow the lease, giving them notice of showings even if you now it's vacant.    

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  • Dana Holland
    OP
    Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    Thanks everyone for your replies! 

    @Mike Cumbie, @Kristina Heimstaedt, that is great advice.  I was thinking along those lines, but nice to have some affirmation from people a little more experienced than me!

    I was going to tell them that we will continue to provide 24 hour notice for showings, but from now on we won't be asking permission we will just be advising them that people will be entering the property.  We also want new carpet installed so I was going to tell them that will happen with 48 hours notice (required in AZ for landlord to enter property).  I will also tell them that the move out inspection will occur on August 1st.  I know with 99.9% certainty that they will not like this and will argue that they don't want us to be able to access the property after their lease ends but before the inspection.  They are clearly overly paranoid about this.  Should I just tell them, that's just how it is because it's within our rights and they are welcome to take as many pictures/videos as they want before they leave for the last time?

    Thanks again for all the help!!

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  • Kristina Heimstaedt
    Real Estate Agent · Newport Beach, CA · Member since 2017 · 259 posts · 293 votes
    9y

    @Dana Holland I had a tenant who knew he was moving out, but was very fussy every time I tried to show the property. He would throw a big temper tantrum every time I scheduled a showing. In this situation I would do the following:

    1. "Hi tenant, I have a scheduled showing for x date and time"

    2. tenat: "it is very inconvenient to continue to show the property. I would like to enjoy my time and space."

    3. "I understand your concerns. However, my only legal obligation is to provide proper notice, which I've done. I look forward to a smooth transition until I can return your security deposit."

    In your case, I might add that because their lease has ended, they no longer have any legal rights to the property and that you will reinforce this by changing the locks. I might also try to get an idea as to why they are paranoid. Everyone has a reason. Hear them out so that you can maybe work with them and end things on good terms. It's your property. They're just borrowing it. They're acting pretty ballsy given that you still have their security deposit. Set them straight real quick, but then be sympathetic and hear them out and try to come up with a solution that works for both parties if there is one to be had.

    1Reply
  • Dana Holland
    OP
    Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    @Kristina Heimstaedt

    Thanks for the input!  It is much appreciated! :)

    0Reply
  • Levi T.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Kristina Heimstaedt our lease  stipulates a $125 fine if they refuse access or don't acomidate for repairs, or showings. They normally back down real quick the moment the learn that. 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    Way easier to just wait for their lease to be up.  Showing a property with a tenant in place just never gets you the best results - whether that's a buyer or a new tenant.  People can't see past other people's junk.  Get the tenant out, fix it up, then show it for best results.

    This would also take away the tenant's power.  Just say, that's fine, we decided to wait until the end of your lease and will be doing everything according to what's required by law.  And be sure to do so, so you can keep what's entitled to you from their security deposit.

    By the way, if you told them you planned on replacing the carpet, there goes your opportunity to charge them for damage to the carpet :-)

    3Reply
  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    On second thought, you might want to just sign off on this tenant, so there's no pending litigation against the property, which could delay a sale.

    0Reply
  • Elizabeth Colegrove
    Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    This is why I have a $100 fee for every non-show/refusing to allow entrance to the house in my lease. 

    Honestly it sounds like you have set the precident where they get to set the terms. Does your lease have anything about abandoment, vacancy etc. If it was me I would lay down the law and show who is boss. On the other hand, at this point in the game it might be WAY to late. I certainly would NOT let them set the terms :( 

    Good luck

    1Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    I would just be careful about changing the locks.  Different areas have different L/T laws.  Here, a tenant has not legally surrendered the unit until they hand over the keys to you, despite your contract with them being expired.  

    If they skip town without doing that, technically you would have to evict them to regain possession here in NY.  Now, it's possible that they will not lay claim to the unit in the future, but it's a calculated risk.  No legal advice given.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Elizabeth Colegrove:

    This is why I have a $100 fee for every non-show/refusing to allow entrance to the house in my lease. 

    Honestly it sounds like you have set the precident where they get to set the terms. Does your lease have anything about abandoment, vacancy etc. If it was me I would lay down the law and show who is boss. On the other hand, at this point in the game it might be WAY to late. I certainly would NOT let them set the terms :( 

    Good luck

     If you're talking about properties in CA, this is not legal.  No non-refundable fees are allowed in CA - no exceptions.  If you get a savvy tenant who sues you, you'll be out of pocket this charge unless you can prove that you actually had $100 out-of-pocket damages.  Then, they'll also get their court fees refunded by the court, and if the judge thinks you did this in bad faith, you'll also have to refund twice their deposit - or is it three times?  I forget.

    You can't legally get away with any non-refundable fees in CA.  And if you want to deduct anything from their security deposit, you have to first give them written notice of their right to an initial inspection that gives them detailed instructions on how to get their full deposit back, with the legal language in that written notice, about their rights.

    In CA, all fees, no matter what you call them, are considered part of the security deposit and fall under those laws.

    So, if you've been getting away with this in CA, you've been getting away with breaking the law.

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