Tenant wants extension - you will not believe the reason

Tenant wants extension - you will not believe the reason

Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes

Long post -  HELP.

I got an email this morning from my tenant that I sent a non-renewal letter to last month. I gave this tenant an extra month to find new housing as it is very difficult to find housing here. She has 3 young children and I feel bad for their family, This tenant is manic. Off her meds. They have triggered 6 eviction notices in their year lease. Started with a lease violation of pets. Their dogs on the lease had a litter of 14 puppies that they didn't tell me about. They when I approached them about getting the puppies adopted she told me to get the "f off the property". This was while I was taking my kids down the street to a birthday party and they hear this lady screaming at me about "What should I have done?, Drown the puppies? Did you want me to take a coat hanger to the mother? These things happen!" 

While I agree that these things happen this was not the reaction I was expecting. Then I get a call from her employer asking for the deposit back that she paid. I ask why, and they tell me that she quit her job.   The tenant tells me she was fired. Then the rent starts not coming in, I can't get a hold of them and they won't answer the door/phone/emails or texts. I understand that can be very stressful. This goes on for 6 months. Then she gets another job and all seems to level out. Then she quits a month later. Rent goes late again. So with 8 late rents, multiple lease violations and hostile interactions with them I decided to not renew the lease. I send the letter a month early and then get an email this morning. This is the first email/communication I have ever gotten from her since she rented a year ago. See the email:

-- We received your notices to vacate the premises as of May 14th. We have been actively searching and filled out multiple applications for multiple properties. However, our older daughters (XXXXXX-5 and XXXXXXX-4) were in XX visiting our parents for the last month. They returned April 6th, but that night something was wrong with XXXXXX. She has shown signs of some physical, sexual or emotional abuse (we are not sure what yet) and I plan to enroll her in play therapy (per recommendations from our friend who is a preschool owner and teacher.) After she had an episode-that now occur daily, multiple times (which consist of me trying to help her brush her teeth, or another activity, with her panicking and screaming "I just want to go to bed") I overheard XXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX having a conversation that "The lady....touched....where the babies come out." It was difficult to hear the entire conversation because I was in the kitchen, but that was enough along with the behavior to be concerned and seek further assistance.

At this time, I am very concerned about uprooting her life and finding a new home. She needs stability, she needs familiarity, and what she has here are family and friends that she is comfortable to be around, which we will not have if we move. This whole situation has completely broken my heart, and I do not know what to do. If we could get an extension, or something.....anything....I would forever be in your debt. From one mother to another, please help me. I don't know what to do.

Thank you for your consideration. --

I am lost as how to proceed or even handle this. 

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Real Estate Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2016 · 940 posts · 695 votes
9y

@Lauren Van Riper - every post I've read on BP: when a landlord doesn't follow his/her eviction procedures and tries to be nice to tenants, it backfires. Sucks because we all want to be liked and thoughtful of others.

Help them find a new place. Offer to help pay for some moving expense. Whatever you feel comfortable with but if you want them out, allow the eviction process to continue.

So very sorry you've had such a rough experience.

Best of luck.

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  • Rory CumminsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2010 · 59 posts · 41 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper it sounds like it's gotten pretty complicated! I'm sure it's an overwhelming situation but I'm also sure that most all other rental owners here on BP have been in some sticky situations as well (as have I on my own rentals over the years:)

    If you're really at a loss on next steps, have you given any thought to getting a professional property manager? I'm sure they'll have a lot of similar experience with these types of situations. At the end of the day, you can empathize with your tenants but if they don't pay the rent, you can't pay the mortgage and now you both have problems. I know its tough but it is important to treat your rentals as a business without letting emotions fall in the way of things. 

    I would seriously recommend just getting a property management company to get involved and handle things from here. True, most will charge 10% of the rent but you can find them between 7-9% and the other good thing is their payment comes 'out of the rent' so they'll be equally inclined to get these types of situations resolved quickly (and resolved fairly and lawfully). It may be well worth it before you burn yourself out and decide altogether that real estate just isn't worth the hassle

    For what it's worth, hope that helps...

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    Thanks for the advice Rory, but we are the property managers...

  • Real Estate Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2016 · 940 posts · 695 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper - every post I've read on BP: when a landlord doesn't follow his/her eviction procedures and tries to be nice to tenants, it backfires. Sucks because we all want to be liked and thoughtful of others.

    Help them find a new place. Offer to help pay for some moving expense. Whatever you feel comfortable with but if you want them out, allow the eviction process to continue.

    So very sorry you've had such a rough experience.

    Best of luck.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Elizabeth Wilson thats what my heart of hearts tells me. But this is just very very hard. You have some good suggestions. Thank you.

  • Investor · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2015 · 409 posts · 214 votes
    9y

    you have to remember this is a business you are running

    if all the paperwork is in place and you have given notice then its time to move on

    if your offering free housing you should place a ad in the local paper- know what I mean?

    the majority of people who have placed themselves in the position they are in, is caused by there own choices- ya people have problems but in reality the only ones that can get out of the rut are the ones that put themselves there in the first place

    stand your ground don't be there psychiatrist and get back on your feet

    enjoy

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 506 posts · 311 votes
    9y

    @Elizabeth Wilson  is correct.  Follow and enforce the lease.

    This tenant will show you she can catch up so you let her get into deeper trouble each next time, and what happens when "3rd time's a charm" comes around and they can't recover? You end up eating 4 months rent lost because you were nice to somebody who can't manage the simple things like keeping a pet indoors/spaying neutering, holding a job, and knowing when to keep her mouth shut.

    And to the employer who said they paid the deposit, my answer is "Sorry.  It is in escrow for the tenant and by law it is her money until it is accounted for at departure." They need to collect from the tenant, not from you.  Don't get in the middle. Not for pay, not for marital or family issues, not for bank matters. They owe you the terms of the lease, and you owe them consideration for that only.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Robert Melcher I understand that clear as a bell. I told the employer that the deposit was between her and them and had nothing to do with me. They acknowledged this and said they had to try. I nipped that in the bud instantly. Each month they caught up with rent. But barely and with little to no communication despite efforts on our side. It is a business and they have proven to me each and every time that they are not responsible. I fear repercussions and payback as she is just that unstable. I am looking for a fair resolution and to have them move along.

  • Real Estate Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2016 · 940 posts · 695 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper  - maybe you can also offer "cash for keys" if they leave by a certain date and don't destroy your property?  That has worked well for us with foreclosures.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Elizabeth Wilson thank you for your suggestion. I hate to reward bad behavior. We have become a society that makes it easy for the bad to go along without repercussions.

  • Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 481 votes
    9y
    Lauren Van Riper I want say this sincerely and not trying to cause confrontation. I truly think that you have chosen the wrong profession as a property manager. The tenant has shafted you not once, twice but many times. The last straw would be when she told you off in front of your kids. My heart goes out for the problems the kids have experienced. I try to help as many people thru life as I can BUT they have to help themselves. Quitting a job before finding another doesn't help her situation or yours. I say yours because you have let their problem become yours. I too learned the hard way to toughen up as a landlord. I had a tenant that ran late on rent, various other lease violations including a pit bull. She even claimed to have cancer and was taking donations from caring people and churches. The cancer was bogus! They create their own problems! My best advice would be to get social services involved for the kids and start an eviction now!
  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Jim Shepard, thanks for your honesty how ever much it stings. Everyone had to start somewhere and you learn from your experiences. Hence me reaching out for advice. I am learning from this experience and will continue to do so. I have already started the non-renewal process and plan on continuing but just was looking for advice. I will do whats right for my family and my business.

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper,

    Please follow thru with the non-renewal. If she is not gone by date given, then file the day after.

    Drama is not simply something to get involved with, so don't

    The only response to her that at this point that is appropriate to give is, in a email and you could drop at door also is, : I received your email. Attached is the move out check list. I will not be able to extend the date any further. Please have your keys turned in by 12 noon that day and all personal belonging removed. 

    If you extend the original date at all you have to start all over with another notice of non-renewal. 

    More than likely you'll file for eviction action the day of the 15th, for cause " failure to vacate after proper notice...

    ?? she said the notice you gave was for May 14th.. if she pays rent from the 1st of the month,, proper notice would be that she'd be out last day of the month.. Did you serve her proper notice.. Or did her lease state rent due on the  15th of the month. then she would be required to vacate on the 14th.

    If you gave her " improper" notice you need to start over, just give her a new notice, one with the end date last day of month.. so proper 30 day..  So if you have to start over do it today, she'd have the balance of April and the full month of May to find housing.. a full 30 day plus notice given prior to the 1st of the month. 

  • Levi T.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper What are your thinking, why are alarm bells NOT going off!!! You need to stop communicating and follow the legal process, evict, and never do this again. Stop being personal with your clients, before you end up in jail or a legal battle. They should have been evicted when they had that 6 month stent of non-payment, job loss, or whatever. They should have been evicted the 5-6 other times.. Next month you will be telling us that she is filing charges or suing you for touching her kid, this is beyond crazy and your personal alarm bells should have been going off a long time ago. You got to get as far away from this, as fast as possible, and run your business like a real business. These people are not family, you do not owe them anything, they are buying a service from you with a contract to be paid over time, and you have mucked it up at this point. Fall back to written snail mail communication only, and follow the correct steps to evict them if they do not move out according to the terms and the law.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Levi T. Alarm bells are going off. I am not being personal with my tenants. I have kept everything above board and on record. My alarm bells have been going off all along and why I am not renewing the lease. But thank you for your helpful review of my mucking it up.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Deanna McCormick, I have given proper notice 60 days out as it is a very hard market to find housing to give her every opportunity to move along. The rent is due on the 15th. Her move out date is the 14th May. I agree with not getting involved in Drama and kept everything in writing and via mail. I do plan on staying the course and them moving out despite the situation. There is no winning here. There have been several opportunities to lean and I have. I will be a better landlord for all these lessons.

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Lauren,,, Good lesson learned now follow thru..

  • Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I'm going to be blunt but get her the F out. I don't believe her email for a minute based on her history. if you let her stay any longer, she'll realize how easy it is to control your emotions.

    It doesn't matter if there aren't many rentals available. That isn't your problem. She seems to be fine flip flopping jobs so let her move to another location with cheaper rents.

    do not give in to her soppy requests unless you want more pains later

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 67 posts · 22 votes
    9y

    Perhaps I'm a jerk, perhaps it will serve me well in Real Estate. Who knows.

    But here's my .02

    I would put my foot down and tell her sorry that's life. Deal with it. 

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 75 posts · 23 votes
    9y

    @Lauren Van Riper try contacting your bank and tell them you can't pay because of your tenant. At the end, the only thing that matter's is results. I understand, you may have a big heart, but your tenant has been dancing with you for a while. You must start the eviction process. I will educate her of the process. You need to know when to hold them and fold them, and this case it's time to cut your losses. My tenant called me on a Monday, about being late and I immediately sent out a letter of the consequences of a late payment. If you don't train your tenants then they will take advantage of you. It's a business and you must always seek the Win-Win, but you must know your boundaries. 

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Good luck with everything - thats a tough one. This is definitely one of the worst parts of being a landlord! I think youre on the right track though.

  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    Your first through eighth mistakes were to not follow through on any of the prior 8 eviction triggers.

    Your 9th mistake is considering not following through on this one.

    It's possible something happened to her daughter.  It's equally likely that nothing happened and this is either a made up story or, given what you've said about the tenant, a delusion.

    You need to make a decision and make it now.  You have 3 choices.

    1.  Start running your business like a business and do the hard things that come with the business as well as reap the benefits of the easy things.

    2.  Commit yourself to running a charity, not a business.  File for non-profit status and make your mission something like "we'll provide housing to all the difficult tenants"

    3.  Get out of the business.

    I too have been in your situation and it sucks.  We have hearts, we have compassion.  It nearly broke me financially last year and I'm still trying to recover from it.  I was out $5000 of rent and $2000 of repairs on a unit where I had similar scenarios.  You've got to stop the bleeding.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    I now how tough it's sometimes to not work with the tenant, despite how easy it is for some people to say 'just kick her to the curb'. I've done it, too, and I've always regretted it, because people will say anything to not get evicted. They will lie to the judge and anyone that wants to hear it. They're desperate. 

    Since the alledged situation with the daughter is new, tell her that it'll be much better for her to start over at a new place and have continuety from that moment on, as there's already a lot of baggage involved with the present apartment. 

    And then continue to follow through with the eviction. I would also contact children services or whatever your local agency is. If you have now knowledge (whether it's true or a lie) of a child abuse situation, I think you might be required to report it, plus you'll likely never forgive yourself, if you didn't report it. 

    If she made it up, then she'll just be happy to move as far from you as possible

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    If I could delete this thread I would. Maybe I was unclear in what I was seeking: I was asking for help in how I can explain that nothing has changed about the non-renewal. And with some helpful suggestions, I have also been told that I am in the wrong business and start running a charity. Every late rent eviction notice after every break of the lease terms has been met with payment. At the end of the lease I have sent her a non-renewal letter early even so they could have plenty of time to find new perhaps more accommodating tenancy. I am running a business and have been treating it as such. If you do not have anything helpful to say, as my mother told me feel, free to keep it to yourself.

  • Graphic Designer & Marketer · Southern Shores, NC · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    @Michaela G. Thank you for your helpful suggestions. I have already reached out to county social services. I was also thinking along the same lines that maybe a new place would make her more at ease. A fresh start so to say. Thank you.

  • Al AndersonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Treasure Coast, FL · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    80 - 20. Twenty percent of your tenants give you 80% of your problems. Get rid of her!!! Evict or cash for keys but do not own the problem. Her life will be in the toilet a year from now, two years from now, for the rest of her life. Your life will be so much better once she is gone.

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