Downstairs Tenant Complaining

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Downstairs Tenant Complaining

John Sanderson
Investor · New Cumberland, PA · Member since 2016 · 67 posts · 32 votes

Hi Everyone,

I've got a tenant in an apartment building who has recently started complaining that the tenant above him is being extremely loud at all hours of the night (1, 2, 3 AM). He complained the upstairs tenant is stomping around, moving furniture, and having yelling matches with his girlfriend. I called the upstairs tenant to inform him that he needs to be quiet after 11 PM, and if he does get into an argument with his girlfriend, they need to take it outside or somewhere else.

After doing this twice, I asked the downstairs tenant to record the upstairs tenant's stomping and yelling, as the next step is to give him notice to comply with the rules of the building. The downstairs tenant told me he didn't want any legal trouble, just to have the upstairs tenant be quiet. I told him I'm not going to put up with someone breaking the rules, so if I'm going to serve a notice, I need some type of evidence, rather than just "he said, she said".

Fast forward to 2 nights ago, the upstairs tenant was apparently being loud, the downstairs tenant went up and they argued for a time and I received texts from both tenants, with the door frame eventually being damaged. I called both tenants to get their sides of the story, both telling me opposite stories. The downstairs tenant then told me that he couldn't record the upstairs tenant being loud, as his phone wouldn't be able to pick it up.

My thinking here is that the downstairs tenant just doesn't like the upstairs tenant and wants him out, as any cell-phone today would be able to pick up loud stomping or a screaming match if it's keeping my downstairs tenants awake.

So, short story long, I examined the damage to the door frame and concluded it was caused by the downstairs tenant pounding on the door and am planning on sending him a bill for the damage. Are there any other suggestions as to what I should do in this situation? I think it's reasonable to require evidence if I'm planning on possibly kicking someone out for non-compliance. If I rambled a bit or you need more information, let me know and I'll provide it ASAP.

Thanks Everyone

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Marcia Maynard
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y

We once had two neighboring tenants in a side-by-side duplex who didn't get along. We made appointments with each of them separately, reviewed the terms of the rental agreement, and told them they needed to work out a solution between the two of them and if they didn't .... one, the other, or both would need to leave. We told them we were prepared to terminate the rental agreements for both sides if their bickering and disrespect for one another continued.

We also took the opportunity to inspect both units and note anything in need of maintenance or repair. We attended to all maintenance items. We put a little more effort in sprucing up the landscaping too, which had us physically on the property a little more than usual. This allowed us the opportunity to observe how the tenants interacted. It also gave the tenants more pride in living there and they started sprucing up their own units. 

We interacted with both families in a open, honest, friendly manner and demonstrated respectful communication, which I think was important for the children to see. It was mostly the hot-headed stubborn fathers who had escalated the problem in the first place. All simmered down and the tenancy continued peacefully from then on. Eventually the tenant who had been there first, moved out-of-town for other reasons. The remaining tenant is still there and has been since 2003.

------

For your situation, if I were managing these units, I would approach it in much the same way as I did with our tenants. They need to learn how to get along as neighbors, or choose a different type of housing.

I would make a site visit to see for myself what is going on, meet with both parties, discuss the terms of the rental agreement, re-establish our expectations, and do an inspection of both units. From our experience, when a tenant is breaking one term of a rental agreement, they are likely breaking more rules too. I would explore what I could to determine the root cause of the problem.

I would not ask the downstairs tenant to record the noise disturbance or collect evidence for me. I would however let both parties know which terms of the rental agreement either may be violating, as well as the city noise ordinance. I would let them know that if either party feels threatened by the other they should call 911.

I would explore the possibility that the floor/ceiling that separates the units may need more sound proofing as well. As for the door frame damage, I would get it repaired as soon as possible and charge the party who did the damage. Notices to Comply (or the equivalent for your jurisdiction) may be in order.... upstairs tenant for noise, downstairs tenant for damaging property. Keep good documentation and check-in on the tenants weekly until this is resolved. 

The key is in setting clear expectations regarding multi-family property living, treating all parties fairly and respectfully, and following through with enforcement of the terms of the rental agreement.

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  • Stanley Parsley
    Investor · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2015 · 409 posts · 214 votes
    9y

    turn it over to the cops

    next time someone disrespects some ones space in the unit just have the occupant call the police to handle it

    you don't know what's going on there they could be on dope or something plus if it is a domestic dispute stay clear that's how people end up getting shot- the most dangerous call to the police-domestic violence

    screen your tenants better in the future you wont have these problems

    enjoy

    0Reply
  • John Sanderson
    OP
    Investor · New Cumberland, PA · Member since 2016 · 67 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    They're both inherited tenants and I haven't had issues with them before. You shouldn't assume, but thank you for your input.

    1Reply
  • Marcia Maynard
    Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    We once had two neighboring tenants in a side-by-side duplex who didn't get along. We made appointments with each of them separately, reviewed the terms of the rental agreement, and told them they needed to work out a solution between the two of them and if they didn't .... one, the other, or both would need to leave. We told them we were prepared to terminate the rental agreements for both sides if their bickering and disrespect for one another continued.

    We also took the opportunity to inspect both units and note anything in need of maintenance or repair. We attended to all maintenance items. We put a little more effort in sprucing up the landscaping too, which had us physically on the property a little more than usual. This allowed us the opportunity to observe how the tenants interacted. It also gave the tenants more pride in living there and they started sprucing up their own units. 

    We interacted with both families in a open, honest, friendly manner and demonstrated respectful communication, which I think was important for the children to see. It was mostly the hot-headed stubborn fathers who had escalated the problem in the first place. All simmered down and the tenancy continued peacefully from then on. Eventually the tenant who had been there first, moved out-of-town for other reasons. The remaining tenant is still there and has been since 2003.

    ------

    For your situation, if I were managing these units, I would approach it in much the same way as I did with our tenants. They need to learn how to get along as neighbors, or choose a different type of housing.

    I would make a site visit to see for myself what is going on, meet with both parties, discuss the terms of the rental agreement, re-establish our expectations, and do an inspection of both units. From our experience, when a tenant is breaking one term of a rental agreement, they are likely breaking more rules too. I would explore what I could to determine the root cause of the problem.

    I would not ask the downstairs tenant to record the noise disturbance or collect evidence for me. I would however let both parties know which terms of the rental agreement either may be violating, as well as the city noise ordinance. I would let them know that if either party feels threatened by the other they should call 911.

    I would explore the possibility that the floor/ceiling that separates the units may need more sound proofing as well. As for the door frame damage, I would get it repaired as soon as possible and charge the party who did the damage. Notices to Comply (or the equivalent for your jurisdiction) may be in order.... upstairs tenant for noise, downstairs tenant for damaging property. Keep good documentation and check-in on the tenants weekly until this is resolved. 

    The key is in setting clear expectations regarding multi-family property living, treating all parties fairly and respectfully, and following through with enforcement of the terms of the rental agreement.

    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    My advice is follow Marcia's lead. Talk to both separately and make it clear that they will need to work it out between the two of them or you will be getting rid of both tenants. If you hear from either one of them again on the matter inform them you will not be renewing their leases.

    Hopefully you have them both on M2M leases.

    1Reply
  • Chinmay J.
    Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
    9y

    I had same situation couple of yrs ago. The townhouse I own was rented out to 2 different families. Same exact situation. Fighting, yelling, cops getting called. The bf/gf downstairs were yelling and fighthing and lady upstairs was constantly complaining about them. Then the couple downstairs would come up with their own complaints about the people upstairs. Bottom line, too much of headache for me. 

    To fix this issue, I let the people downstairs go. I just didn't renew their at the end of their term. Then I replaced them with someone who was more suitable to get along with the lady upstairs. So far no complaints for last one year. 

    If talking with them separately and resolving the issue amicably doesn't do the trick, you may just have to let one of them go.

    2Reply
  • Chinmay J.
    Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Chinmay J. If you let one go, they could sue you for discrimination so be careful on how you handle this or let both go.

    Discrimination based on what?  I have complete right to renew or not renew their leases. Also, I never give any reason why. Why doesn't matter. 

    0Reply
  • Chinmay J.
    Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Chinmay J. If one tenant is complaining to the other, they can claim the landlord is evicting me base on the other tenant, and a judge might see it as Discrimination. Do what you like and hope it never happened to you.

    Again.. I didn't evict anyone. Renewal of the lease agreement has to be mutually agreed to by both the parties in writing. To bring about eviction against someone is a completely different process for which one has to go to the court.

    When I suggested John Sanderson to let someone go, I didn't mean evict them. He can just not renew the lease agreement. Not sure how long of an agreement he has with the tenants.

    2Reply
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