Tenant's Odd Behavior

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Tenant's Odd Behavior

Michael Ash
Modesto, CA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 7 votes

All: I'm looking for some advice. My Tenant moved into my rental home (4/2) 5 months ago on a 6 month lease term, goes month to month after that. The tenant pays on time and lease states that she and her two grandchildren (18 & 13) would be the only tenants in the home. Her car and her granddaughters cars will be the only cars on the Premises. They pay on time every month and I have no complaints about them...great tenant.  

However, a neighbor has been complaining the last 3 months that there are hoards of people coming and going from the property every day and that there are cars there at all hours of the day and night and that there must be some type of drug dealing or other suspicious activity going on. Neighbor states that there are young men who loiter outside all the time, sit in cars all the time, etc...

When receiving complaints I have driven by and find the property has 1-3 cars but no one outside and nothing like the situation he describes.  I have gone by many times based on his complaints and never really see what he is seeing. Therefore, it appears Tenant is in compliance with my lease and that I can do nothing. I have told him to call the police if he suspects something unlawful is happening. He texted me the other day that if I didn't do something, "something bad was going to happen" because he was tired of all these "tweakers" being across the street from him.

I figured that I was doing the right thing until yesterday when the other neighbor called and basically reported the same thing. 

I have been in the home recently and was quite impressed by the cleanliness of the home and good condition that the tenant is keeping it in. I have asked the tenant about other people living there and reminded her that any additional adults living there would cause an additional $150/month in rent. She stated that the people coming and going are her children and their spouses and all have their own homes/apartments and do not live there.

What should I do here?

Lease is expiring in a month. Should I terminate this perfectly good tenant who is paying an above market rent in order to pacify the neighbors? I see no violation of my lease and no evidence of foul play at the home. It's a mystery. But when someone starts threatening and other people start complaining...now I'm concerned...

Best,

Mike

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Kimberly H.
Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
9y

@Michael Ash in addition to calling the police, you could ask them to back it up with photos or video, everyone has a smart phone these days so that shouldn't be to hard, assuming it is really happening.

Could just be they have a large, close family that likes to visit, there is certainly no crime against that.

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  • Daria B.
    Rental Property Investor · Gainesville, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 432 votes
    9y

    Did you go over at the same times when the neighbor reported this suspicious activity?

    If you have already told them to call the police and they refuse, I don't see how you can effectively do anything until something does happen - unfortunately if there is something amiss - and without either neighbor corroborating one another story.

    Could it be that those neighbors and your tenant have somehow fallen on bad terms with one another and the neighbors are now complaining in hopes of your not renewing their lease?

    1Reply
  • Aaron HowellBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Crozet, VA · Member since 2014 · 436 posts · 223 votes
    9y

    The neighbors may be just stirring up trouble.  You may stake out the place another time or two at different times of the day and see if you get different results.  One neighbor may have befriended another and gotten them to say something to you.

    My full time job is a pharmacist and people tell me all kinds of stuff that seems outlandish and usually turns out being complete BS.  I've learned to take things with a grain of salt.

    I think you encouraging them to call the cops if they think something was going on was a good move.  By them not calling yet it just reenforces my belief they're trying to cause trouble with your tenants.

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  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Talk to the neighbours and tell them they are all her family members visiting. Assuming you believe her there is nothing more to be done.

    If you are concerned ask the neighbours to write down all the licence plate numbers. Check and see if they correspond to her family members vehicles. If she is having excessive visitors causing issues or more ware and tear on the property you may need to not renew her lease at some point.

    Remember you do not take anything anyone says at face value, not tenant or neighbours.

    3Reply
  • Kyle Blake
    Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 23 votes
    9y

    It's Friday night, I would swing by after 9 and see if anything is amiss. If there were people coming and going at all hours, I would think there would be evidence left behind (stained carpets, drywall damage, yard damage, etc). Given the info we have so far, I am inclined to think the neighbor is the issue and the "or else something bad will happen" reply seems like a threat of taking action. 

    If the neighbor is the type I'm thinking of, it isn't out of reason he bullied a neighbor into backing him up. 

    Edit: I would also swing by tomorrow and ask the house behind and next to yours, if anything has been going on. Ideally they wont have any "dog in the fight" and give you a straight answer. 

    1Reply
  • Michael Ash
    OP
    Modesto, CA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    All: thank you so much for the ideas. I'll put these to good use.

    1Reply
  • Kimberly H.
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    9y

    @Michael Ash in addition to calling the police, you could ask them to back it up with photos or video, everyone has a smart phone these days so that shouldn't be to hard, assuming it is really happening.

    Could just be they have a large, close family that likes to visit, there is certainly no crime against that.

    5Reply
  • Michael Ash
    OP
    Modesto, CA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    Great point Kimberly.

    0Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    I agree tell them send you video. You could have a security camera but people just turn them off when they are doing something wrong.  Two teens will generate more visitors then some people are comfortable with, they don't have to be doing anything wrong.  Are  the hours of visitors a problem? Is Grandma maybe consistently out at some time so she is not there when this is happening?  

    If there are loitering suspicious people the neighbors need to call the cops. If they haven't there really isn't grounds for you to take action. I have confronted tenants if police visits are made but not without them. (here they publish the police log)

    You did say they had three vehicles and that makes me consider if there is an extra person because there are two drivers. However I had a  prospective tenant say they had 5 cars for two people so it happens.

    0Reply
  • Natalie Schanne
    Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Michael Ash - is there any chance your neighbors are racially/socially discriminating? Did you read that social connections are really valuable to your overall health and happiness? If your neighbors are not calling the police on your tenants and you're not observing any abnormal damage, let her stay. I would actually try to renew her lease for a term so it ended at a high demand time for tenants for your market (and not so she could give 30 day notice in Nov/December). Does she want to sign through August? Next year? Her response will let you know how she likes your property. Total aside - I lived right next to drug dealers / very heavy users in a B+/A- area in Northern Virginia, but their frequent guests didn't cause any trouble to me (didn't break into my car or rob my house), so I left it alone. Their house went to foreclosure, was fixed up by flippers and bought by a young professional couple a few months ago.
    0Reply
  • Daniel O.
    Investor · Takoma Park, MD · Member since 2016 · 166 posts · 147 votes
    9y

    I'm with @Natalie Schanne. Sounds to me like Grandma is anchoring this family and that she is a center for familial social activity. I also wonder whether the neighbor has an issue with the race or ethnicity of your tenants. If the neighbor is unwilling to call the police, its most likely because he/she knows he is in the wrong...or they don't want the police paying attention to them. Bottom line is that you have no credible evidence that your tenant is doing anything other than being a good grandmother.

    Explain to the neighbor that unless there is something illegal going on, you have no basis for breaking the lease and evicting them. Sounds like the neighbor is the problem here.

    1Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    9y

    If your tenants happen to be minorities....tell the neighbors if they continue to complain you will be reporting them to HUD or the DOJ for civil rights violations. That will shut your neighbors up quickly.

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  • Michael Ash
    OP
    Modesto, CA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    Thanks all. Great thoughts. Tenants are not minorities. 

    0Reply
  • Jamie Engledow
    Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2015 · 249 posts · 52 votes
    9y

    It worries me thst the neighbor said, "if you dont do something about it, something bad will happen".  Was that a threat?  Or an observation?  Unfortnately I don't think you can really do anything about it without evidence.  And you have good advise to the neighbor when you told them to call the police regarding potential illegal activity.  Without proof of illegal activity I would figure you have no further obligation to act.  Note-all of the above was just my personal opinions, no expertise to back it up.

    1Reply
  • Rich N.Pro Member
    Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes
    9y

    unless you find them doing something wrong, you can not evict.  The only thing you can do is not re-new the lease if you suspect anything.  But from the posts, you don't seem to find anything wrong.

    1Reply
  • Sid Leibowitz
    Contractor · Glen Cove, NY · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 89 votes
    9y

    I have had this in the past and now I just flip. There was always some drama being a landlord. I only had decent properties. Not in the hood, I had a couple of long steel poles installed like is used in fence and had vandal proof cameras and metal halide lights installed on the poles with the lights. The cameras has armored cable that could not be cut easily especially 30 feet in the air. This connected to a recorder. The thugs moved the operation else wear but not before one guy tried to climb the pole and I have him on tape falling and then he tried to sue me for insurance. The judge threw the case out after seeing the tape. He was in a wheelchair for a year. 

    1Reply
  • Jeff Keller
    Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2017 · 226 posts · 95 votes
    9y

    It sounds as if the complaining neighbors have never talked to your tenants. If I thought a neighbor was a risk, I would probably try to talk to him face to face so that I could learn more about him.

    You could talk to your tenants and ask them if they are happy with your home and the neighborhood. That could shed light onto what is going on. Don't suggest there is any problem, because that might create one.

    1Reply
  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    In some cases neighbors who own their homes simply don't like renters and/or rental properties.   This may be the case with your neighbor, especially since it appears you've been monitoring the supposed activity the neighbor claims and seen nothing that confirms this.

    Some home owners are just nosy people who would rather see an empty building than tenants living there.

    My story....we once had an incident where a young man decided to ride his bicycle down to the local Kroger very early one morning to buy his uncle some soda.  On the way back some thugs followed him in their car and as they drove by one guy reached out the window and shot at him with a small caliber pistol; hit him on the side of the head.  The rider managed to wobble along for a block of two before he fell off his bike and sat on the curb holding his head.  A lady came out of her house, saw the guy and assumed he had fallen off his bike.   She called 911, the paramedics came; the guy really couldn't respond by then so they loaded him up and took him to our trauma unit.  It was only then they found the bullet wound.  The young man ended up dying.

    The sad event made the local news and a reporter came out and interviewed a home owner who lived on the block.  It turned out the rider fell off his bike right in front of one of our houses that just happened to be up for rent.   The home owner blamed the "crime wave" on the number of rental properties in the area and the camera showed a nice shot of our For Rent sign and our rental house.

    It appears that we shot the guy?  Go figure....

    Gail

    0Reply
  • Linda S.
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Michael Ash,

    Are the tenants reporting it good quality tenants?   Do they have any motives to get them out?  I will say, when there's smoke, there's fire... I doubt your other tenants are making up stories, or racially discriminating, they're telling you they feel uncomfortable.   I agree, your best solution is to tell them to call the cops and get extra surveillance.   

    I will also say, tenants aren't stupid-- if they know you are coming (required 24-hr notice), and they are doing shady stuff, you better believe they can clean up!     Of course they'll say it's just friends, friends are allowed... Shady people in my opinion are the worst because they are often very smart and sneaky.  The threats you mention, are likely just that they may have seen some guns, or very obvious drug dealing.. drug dealing and violence go together like 2 peas in a pod. 

    The question you have to ask yourself, is unfortunately how much do you care about the quality of the neighborhood?   It may not even be your tenants, probably someone's BF/GF using your house as the drop off/pick up so they don't get caught and aren't tied to your place.. .. but at the end of the day, it's that tenant who's causing the disruption. ..  you aren't the moral police, or the regular police.. you're a landlord.      If it's causing a headache, a lot of stress, since it's M2M, just notify them you aren't renewing, and offer to give them a great rental reference.    If they aren't, and you just enjoy the rent, and as long as "you don't see it, it doesn't happen"  type of deal... don't stress and just tell the neighboring tenants to call the cops.   I say this because in our neighborhood, there's 1 obvious drug dealer.. I've called the cops on him numerous times... everyone else is quiet and keeps to themselves.. but we see the same thing your other tenants describe to you .. it's sucks.. i just wish i was the landlord to kick him out.   Hope this helps!

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