Move out checklist disaster, help !

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Move out checklist disaster, help !

Martha Daisley
Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 13 votes

Hi guys,

I need your advise. I have a tenant thats out of the country in Iraq. He gave me 30 day notice via email that he was non-renewing the lease. I accepted his non-renewal. He never came back into the country so I ended up doing  the move out walkthrough and move out checklist with his adult children and his son signed off.  The children are listed as occupants on the lease but only the dad is the primary on the lease as he originally signed it.

Now he is upset because he will not be getting his deposit back as there is extensive repainting/repairs that need to be done that go above and beyond the deposit. He is saying it wasnt acceptable to have his son sign and is threatening to "go to the authorities". Im not sure what else i could have done since he was not in the country and someone had to be present and sign.  He is now also claiming his wife is getting seen for health issues due to mold in one of rooms. When they  first complained about it, i sent my handyman over on two occassions to treat the issue and they didnt say anything more about it until now. He obviously wants to retaliate because hes not getting his deposit back. Im getting a professional mold inspection done next week to cover myself.

My question is: Is it a problem that i had his adult son sign the moveout checklist since he(the dad) was out of the country at the time of moveout?  #2. I know you are supposed to send a certified letter with intent to keep the deposit. I dont have an address for him in Iraq and im not even sure how that would work so i emailed him the letter instead and im sending it certified mail to his adult son and daughters new address tomorrow.  Is that enough or do i have to still send the certified letter to Iraq? I doubt he will give me his address there at this point.

Thanks!

Martha

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Gail K.
Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

First understand where you send the letter regarding the security deposit information in Florida:

Landlord tenant law in the state of Florida is very clear There are specific steps and requirements that a landlord must meet regarding security deposits. If the landlord does not follow the exact letter of the law then their right to withhold ANY of your deposit money is forfeited completely. In this case Tenant laws in the State of Florida force the landlord to return 100% of your security deposit.

Florida in a nutshell - Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant’s last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim.

This is a notice of my intention to impose a claim for damages in the amount of upon your security deposit, due to . It is sent to you as required by s. 83.49(3), Florida Statutes. You are hereby notified that you must object in writing to this deduction from your security deposit within 15 days from the time you receive this notice or I will be authorized to deduct my claim from your security deposit. Your objection must be sent to (landlord’s address) If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit.

The last known mailing address is your rental property.


Second...the fact that his adult son was present to at the walk through means diddly.   Walk throughs are often jokes anyway; each state gives a landlord a certain amount of time to review a rental property for damages above normal wear and tear and it's not unusual that additional damage may be found after the walk through.  In other words, the walk through is NOT the final end all to finding damage.

What's important is that you have accurate pictures of the damages you claim are above normal wear and tear.   It's doubtful that this guy is going to "go to the authorities" since he isn't even in this country but it's always good to have evidence to justify your reason for keeping a security deposit for damages should you need this information in the future.

Finally, don't worry so much about this nonsense mold claim.  The "deadly" mold ship sailed long ago.  Your tenants reported an issue, you sent a handyman over to address it; there were no further complaints.  If you send over a so called professional mold inspector they are likely to find mold because...guess what...mold is everywhere.   Instead keep the documentation that you addressed this repair issue, again, if needed sometime down the road.

Gail

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  • Kim Meredith HamptonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Martha Daisley good idea to have the professional mold inspection. Make sure you also have your notes from the handyman. Is he licensed And insured? Could cause a issue if it went to court and this person did not take care of the  water issue that caused the mold. Secondly, did the tenant give you permission to have the adult children on the lease do the movr out on his behalf, If not you could have a problem. Thirdly, send the security deposit claim by certified mail to God lady known address, which would be the rental. If he has a forwarding address it will get forwarded  to him. Hope all works out well, if you get further worries, I would contact a landlord tenant attorney 

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  • Matthew Olszak
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Martha Daisley Are you required to do a walk-through with the tenants at the end of the lease? I don't specifically because I'm not going to be standing there arguing over repairs. They know how they received the unit, I keep photos and videos of the before and after condition, and back everything up with receipts and third-party invoices for repairs. If he didn't want to be charged for the items then he should have had them repaired PRIOR to the move out date and when keys were turned over.

    What exactly is he arguing about? Is he saying the charges are unreasonable, that the damage doesn't exist, that he should be responsible for the damage?

    Your lease should specify how and where notice is to be delivered.

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  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    You are fine, don't worry.

    Let him go to what ever authorities he chooses but their is a very high probability he will do nothing. If he does just keep all the info available and make your case, you will be fine.

    I would send him a e-mail and tell him if he has a problem to take it up with his son, it's not your problem..

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  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    First understand where you send the letter regarding the security deposit information in Florida:

    Landlord tenant law in the state of Florida is very clear There are specific steps and requirements that a landlord must meet regarding security deposits. If the landlord does not follow the exact letter of the law then their right to withhold ANY of your deposit money is forfeited completely. In this case Tenant laws in the State of Florida force the landlord to return 100% of your security deposit.

    Florida in a nutshell - Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant’s last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim.

    This is a notice of my intention to impose a claim for damages in the amount of upon your security deposit, due to . It is sent to you as required by s. 83.49(3), Florida Statutes. You are hereby notified that you must object in writing to this deduction from your security deposit within 15 days from the time you receive this notice or I will be authorized to deduct my claim from your security deposit. Your objection must be sent to (landlord’s address) If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit.

    The last known mailing address is your rental property.


    Second...the fact that his adult son was present to at the walk through means diddly.   Walk throughs are often jokes anyway; each state gives a landlord a certain amount of time to review a rental property for damages above normal wear and tear and it's not unusual that additional damage may be found after the walk through.  In other words, the walk through is NOT the final end all to finding damage.

    What's important is that you have accurate pictures of the damages you claim are above normal wear and tear.   It's doubtful that this guy is going to "go to the authorities" since he isn't even in this country but it's always good to have evidence to justify your reason for keeping a security deposit for damages should you need this information in the future.

    Finally, don't worry so much about this nonsense mold claim.  The "deadly" mold ship sailed long ago.  Your tenants reported an issue, you sent a handyman over to address it; there were no further complaints.  If you send over a so called professional mold inspector they are likely to find mold because...guess what...mold is everywhere.   Instead keep the documentation that you addressed this repair issue, again, if needed sometime down the road.

    Gail

    2Reply
  • Martha Daisley
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    Thanks for everyones responses. @Gail, yes, i have documentation(pics) of all the repainting, cleaning and small repairs that need to be done. I also have pics of what it looked like before he moved in. It was freshly painted, rennovated and clean.  I have the invoices with description of both times handyman went over to treat the mold issue.

    Do you think i should ask the guy for his address in Iraq for the certified letter about the deposit? Im pretty sure he's not going to give it to me. I could send the letter to the rental property but it will just be forwarded to his kids. They already gave me their new address, i was going to send it to them. 

    @Kim and Matthew. Im not sure if im required to do a walkthrough in florida, i dont think so, but i always do them. And i always find more damage after the handyman goes in and looks.   I didnt ask him permission to have the adult children do the walkthrough in his place. I figured since the guy was in Iraq with no ETA on when he was comming back and the lease was up, it was the only thing i could do to complete the walkthrough. I do have a text from his wife(who is also often out of the country and was at the time out)saying to just deal with their daughter about the property stuff when theyre not there.

    Martha

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  • Martha Daisley
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    UPDATE:

    I just emailed the guy to ask for his address in Iraq so i could send the certified mail security deposit letter and his response was "I cant receive mail here, talk to my kids about that".

    So there you have it, all that hoola and getting mad over how his son signed off on the moveout checklist but he's referring me back to his kids to have them handle things.

    So I'll be sending the intent to keep the security deposit via certified mail both to his kid's new address and the the rental property address( last known address of the dads) to cover all basis, even its just going to get forwarded to his kids anyway.

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  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    You are required to send it to him at his last known address. Send it certified. Did he authorize his children to do the walkthrough? If he did I would not worry about it. If he wasn't available for a walkthrough that is not your issue. Did you follow chapter 83?

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  • Paul Vincent
    Bay Village, OH · Member since 2016 · 155 posts · 55 votes
    9y
    I suggest meeting with an attorney that you're comfortable with in case you need to evict. In Ohio, you need to itemize what you're using the deposit on and send within 30 days of their move out.
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  • Martha Daisley
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    @John Thedford

    Yes, i followed chapter 83. The tenant is in Iraq and has told me he cant receive mail there and to talk to his kids about it. So I will send the certified security deposit letter to the rental properties address (his last known address) and it will be forwarded to his adult kids.  I did not specifically ask the tenant permission to have his kids do the walkthrough, but it was implied since he has not  been in the country for months and his kids had taken over the responsibility of paying the rent.  Even now he's telling me to just talk to his kids. So i think the only reason he raised a stink about his son signing off on the walkthrough was because he's not getting the deposit back due to repairs and cleaning costs.

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  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Martha Daisley:

    UPDATE:

    I just emailed the guy to ask for his address in Iraq so i could send the certified mail security deposit letter and his response was "I cant receive mail here, talk to my kids about that".

    So there you have it, all that hoola and getting mad over how his son signed off on the moveout checklist but he's referring me back to his kids to have them handle things.

    So I'll be sending the intent to keep the security deposit via certified mail both to his kid's new address and the the rental property address( last known address of the dads) to cover all basis, even its just going to get forwarded to his kids anyway.

     Keep this email. He can't tell you that he doesn't want his children signing for his property, then tell you to connect with his children about the deposit. 

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