Tenant Issues Post #21957

Tenant Issues Post #21957

Investor · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 1 vote

Hi guys,

I am posting today because I need some advice about what to do with my tenant.  I am a new landlord and have asked many people's advice only to hear many conflicting theories.  Here's the story..

Basically I moved out of my first home and turned it into a rental, and bought a new house.  This was two months ago, and my tenant has given me hell since day 1.  First warning sign was she paid first, last, security ($4600 total), in like 7 money orders.  A normal person would write 2 checks or whatever.  Then week two we find a dog on the property, a pitbull no less.  She explicitly told us she doesn't have any pets and filled in the pet area on the lase with "N/A".  So my property manager calls her and we agree to let the dog stay if she will pay a $500 nonrefundable pet deposit.  She says cool, but she wants to pay $100 a month for 5 months.  We agree to that, and on we went.

The girl then fails (refuses) to put the water bill into her name.  So we have to pay it, itemize the days, and submit this amount along with the rent due every month.  Total pain in the ***, which she has not rectified and would be difficult to evict over.  Okay it is what it is.  Now on to the next item of business, she moved her brother into the outside bedroom.  This guy is not on the lease and sharing any responsibility, but he gets to use the house.  When we press her on this issue, she swears nobody is living with her.

Okay so let's keep going.  When the first month's rent is due, she doesn't have it.  She says she thought the lease started from the 22nd, not the 16th.  Mind you, she moved in on the 17th of October.  Anyways there's a 5 day grace period in the lease, so she really has until the 21st every month before we can serve her with the 3-day notice.  Of course she doesn't pay.  We hit her with the 3-day notice and she loses her mind, harassing my property manager with insults etc etc.  On the 4th day she pays up.

Now we are in the next month, and we have gone through the 3-day notice, today is day 4.  Tenant is telling us she will not pay the rent because of the $62 late fee (as written in the lease), and the $100 dog fee included in the bill.  She swears she does not have a dog, and won't pay the fee, lol!  We just saw the dog there a few days ago when we installed a new dryer machine.  We said we would remove the fee if she signs an affidavit swearing there is no dog at the house... but we have yet to receive anything from her.

So if you could, please tell me how to proceed with this tenant.  I am scared to accept the rent without the late fees built in, as this would establish a bad precedent.  Also eviction is a bit daunting as a first time landlord in literally month 2 of the lease.  Paying all of those turnover fees as well as having an adversarial tenant in my property for 2 months doesn't sound fun.  She could do some real damage to the place.

My first idea was to do that magical eviction where you offer like $500 in cash if the tenant is willing to move out in 1-2 days.  Then give them the cash and make them sign something saying they are walking away from the lease, blah blah.

2nd plan is eviction, but this tenant has a realtor friend who I'm sure would love to jam us up in court for 3-4 months while this douchy tenant destroys the place.  Not a great option either.   3rd option is to "work with" the tenant and see how it goes.  Any suggestions or advice you guys have would be invaluable!!!  

Pete

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Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y

Any advice you get on here from any landlord that advises anything other than to immediately begin and peruse the eviction has no experience with this species of tenant. I would tell her you will be reporting her to CPS for child abuse....drugs. This might get her moving. I would then wait a couple of days and report her. You need to make her life a living hell if you want to get rid of her.

You will regret it if you do not immediately begin the eviction. I am guessing you will not take my advice and I would love to hear back from you in about 6 months. That should be about enough time to bury you.

PS . The reason she has no previous evictions on her record is because her previous landlords shafted you by paying her extortion money to leave their places.

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  • Investor · Madison, CT · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 458 votes
    9y

    @Peter D. - To me, it sounds like you've tried working with the tenant. The fact that she denies having a dog after agreeing to the fee is just astounding. Do you have proof of that conversation? Or pictures of the house with the dog? If she was late and is refusing to pay because of the late fee, as long as that fee is clearly stated in the lease, then you can evict. The water bill is tricky. I'm not sure how Florida works, but in CT, we pay the water because failure to do so can result in foreclosure, so that's not something we're willing to count on our tenants for.

    I don't know how quick or expensive eviction is in Florida. In CT it would take time and money, and it sucks that this is your first tenant on your first property, but you'll learn a lot going through the process. If you can afford it, I would suggest do it right. Once you've been through it, the process won't be as intimidating, and you'll have a  new level of confidence as a landlord. 

    Alternatively, since it is your first property, and you probably don't want to dig yourself into a hole right up front, you might try a cash-for-keys approach. With the portfolio to support the expense and vacancy, I would evict. In your position, I would try cash-for-keys first. You never know. The threat and official move to evict might be enough to get her to shape up. This brings up an important question, though. Did you do any background check on her? If not, you should. If she has 3 evictions and a credit score of 500, then she won't care about the further damage to her background she'll cause by taking advantage of you. If she has a clean record and decent credit, then she might be scared off her terrible behavior and move out voluntarily once you've officially filed.

  • Investor · Miami Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 486 posts · 216 votes
    9y

    Pete, 

    Sounds like a trouble tenant.  I suggest to use eviction as the last resource.  Easiest way to evict is for non payment of rent & it only takes about 30 days depending how quickly you serve them and if there are any holidays in between.  I would accept the rent without the late fee but I will apply payment to late fee first and leave a balance of the rent in the amount of a late fee, so technically she did not pay the rent in full.  Then serve her with another 3-day notice for the rent balance.  I have had tenants who I would serve with 3-day notice almost every month and they eventually paid with late fees.  It was not pleasant but when the lease was up, I told them to find another place. 

    The key is to be on top of them as it seems you are. 

    I suggest to maybe talk to a flat fee eviction attorney who can send out a letter regarding lease violations and just be upfront with them that if they don't comply you will terminate the lease.  

  • Investor · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Thank you for all of the advice.  Her background is clean, she has been working at the same tattoo shop locally for 7 years now, so I thought she was stable.  We called her old landlords who said she was a good tenant who paid her bills (2 yrs).  She has no credit score but she doesn't have bad credit or any derogotories.  She is a young mom maybe 28 years old with two kids and an ex husband contributing child support.  She doesn't have any prior evictions or public records.

    On paper she seemed like a good bet, her mom lives like two streets over.  But yeah it was horror story after horror story the second she moved in.  I was there like week 2 or 3 having a 4-pt inspection done on the property so I could switch my insurance to tenant insurance.  We notified the tenant earlier that day and she said no problemo come on by.  When we get there, the inspector is like hey I need to come inside for a minute to check the breaker box.  Tenant is like NO!  you can't come in!!  we ask why, she said because my stuff is not arranged!!  I tell her okay sure you can refuse, it's not a big deal we will just come back when it's better for you.  But the inspector plays it cool and just keeps gently asking her why he can't come inside, it will literally only take 2 seconds.  So she finally relents and agrees to let just him inside.  The dude comes out 2 minutes later and word for word tells me "hey bro, **** that lady, it stinks like weed smoke in there and her two kids are in there."

    I mulled it over with the property manager lady but we didn't want to risk getting CPS involved and it being our word vs. hers etc etc.  It just would have been a whole mess, and tough to prove what it really was in there.  If you have any suggestions about this extra tricky scenario I would love to hear your ideas, lol.  I am at my wits end with this whole thing honestly

  • Investor · Juneau, AK · Member since 2015 · 980 posts · 741 votes
    9y

    Rough start to your landlord career. Looks like a lease violation a week on average. More red flags than you can count.

    I think you need a mulligan-- like when you have a bad golf shot--and allow yourself another swing. A do-over. A new start.

    I would look at your plan "A" or "B" to rid yourself of the tenant and start over ($500 is pretty economical if that would do the trick) and try and re-rent the place. 

    Only, you will want to review your tenant screening procedures or else this may happen again. I would do a postmortem once you get the tenant out. Study all your processes. 

    Start from the ad, the first contacts, showings, applications, screenings, etc. See if you can actually turn this into a lesson--a what not to do and try and prevent the same problem the second time around.

    I would even look closely at the management situation. It seems you have a manager but are doing many of the tasks and taking on the stress, so that may be something to reconsider (especially if the manager chose this tenant).

    Best of luck!

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y

    who chose this tenant - you or your property manager? Whoever that was, they should be prevented from selecting the next tenant. And you will be better off going for a next tenant - the sooner the better.

    I tell all new tenants that they will not be given any keys until all utilities they have agreed to be responsible for are in the tenant's name, and I all them I will check with all of the utility companies to confirm. And I do that; by telling them that in advance, I don't end up with the problem of having to pay their bills - because they won't get a key until they have complied.

    This tenant BTW has some of the characteristics of a "professional tenant", so they probably do not need a realtor friend to coach them on how to drag out an eviction and cause excess damage - they can do all that without help ;)

  • Kim Meredith HamptonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Peter D. I can't help but ask; who is this PM company? I think a lot of this could have been avoided by performing some due diligence before letting this tenant into your property. I know that tenants lie, but there are too many scenarios here that sound like lights should have went off when screwing the tenants.

    We never let tenants move in without the copy of the utility bills being put in their name. Any less violations are handled immediately with a 7 day notice of noncompliance with right to correct the issue, if the violation is not rectified within 7 days, we issue a 7 day notice of non compliance without opportunity to cure, then move forward with eviction. With over 20'years in the business , I can most assurandly tell you to cut bait and run. These people are trouble and will cost you more if you don't get rid of them now. 

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    9y

    Really surprised to hear that you have a property manager because it sounds like they keep making really bad decisions in dealing with this tenant.  

    I agree with the others, you need to get this tenant out the sooner the better because they just keep lying. The "magical" thing you talked about is called "cash for keys" which sometimes works sometimes not. But since your property manager sounds like a newbie, please know that no cash gets paid UNTIL the tenant moves ALL of their stuff out of the property AND everyone signs a document where they agree they are moving out early in exchange for the cash. The fact this tenant knows a real estate agent doesn't scare me at all.

    Once you get them out you need to fire this PM. In the meantime I would contact an attorney with tons of experience in landlord tenant issues in your area since I don't trust this PM to even recommend an attorney. Find a local real estate investors association and find out from people there who they recommend. 

    Have your next lease require that they have all utilities in their name before they can move in. And a clause that says if for some reasons they don't pay after they move in, if the landlord needs to pay on their behalf they owe you 120%/min charge $20 per bill of the utilities as additional rent to make it worth your extra time . 

    You need to train your tenant. This tenant is training your PM.

  • Investor · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    The harsh reality of this situation is beginning to set in.  Thank you for all of the advice guys, you are right this tenant is worthless and I made some grave errors in tenant screening.  My PM is my real estate agent who manages a handful of properties, I figured she had experience and she is only charging me 8% because Ive bought two homes through her.  And yes I have been doing a lot of the managing myself, such as the dryer machine.  I went and got a used one on craigslist for $60 in my pickup truck instead of buying a new or used unit from a shop, like my PM probably would have done.  How can I get rid of her if I am under some sort of agreement I signed with her?  I think it lasts 6 months, I would have to look it up.  

  • Anthony GaydenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Peter D.:

    The harsh reality of this situation is beginning to set in.  Thank you for all of the advice guys, you are right this tenant is worthless and I made some grave errors in tenant screening.  My PM is my real estate agent who manages a handful of properties, I figured she had experience and she is only charging me 8% because Ive bought two homes through her.  And yes I have been doing a lot of the managing myself, such as the dryer machine.  I went and got a used one on craigslist for $60 in my pickup truck instead of buying a new or used unit from a shop, like my PM probably would have done.  How can I get rid of her if I am under some sort of agreement I signed with her?  I think it lasts 6 months, I would have to look it up.  

     This is how you get rid of her. Walk up and tell her "You're Fired."

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Any advice you get on here from any landlord that advises anything other than to immediately begin and peruse the eviction has no experience with this species of tenant. I would tell her you will be reporting her to CPS for child abuse....drugs. This might get her moving. I would then wait a couple of days and report her. You need to make her life a living hell if you want to get rid of her.

    You will regret it if you do not immediately begin the eviction. I am guessing you will not take my advice and I would love to hear back from you in about 6 months. That should be about enough time to bury you.

    PS . The reason she has no previous evictions on her record is because her previous landlords shafted you by paying her extortion money to leave their places.

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Follow your state landlord laws and get her out. She is a train wreck. NO deals just do it properly and file. Document any and all infractions photo's whatever.  No payment agreements. No partial payments accepted. Put ET AL on all court documents so anyone not listed on lease is included in court filing paperwork.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    For the marijuana you could have delivered a lease violation when it happened. Now if you report marijuana use to CPS and they investigate (if they do) she is probably going to have a medical marijuana  card by that time.   I actually don't think second hand reports of MJ  smell is a  CPS issue. -really this is your tenant issue... Let the housing court deal with tenant issues. 

    Anything serious that you saw regarding drugs/abuse/neglect that is an observed risk to the kids certainly report to CPS.   CPS mission is to protect kids and unless you really have a kid risk you are diverting resources from kids who really need their help. 

    Other then that you have received some good advice so far, I would just add act quickly and consistently.

  • Investor · Lehigh Acres, FL · Member since 2013 · 94 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    Florida evictions take about 30 days from start to finish, see if you can get a process server who will file the papers for you, they are cheaper than attorneys, and PLEASE read the Florida Landlord Tenant Laws as it pertains. I have had to evict for non rent and child endangerment. If you yes the tenant on everything then you are breaking your own rules. Take the feeling out of it, its a business, treat it like a business. We have all had that one bad tenant when starting out. In the future you may need to either manage yourself if you end up doing so much, or retain a new mgt company. Good Luck!

  • Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2016 · 299 posts · 110 votes
    9y

    You can give her a 7 day notice to remove the dog and anyone not on the lease.  If you do a 3 day notice for rent, you can only list the amount of rent due (and you can take a partial payment and give another 3 day notice the next day for the balance due).  You cannot add the late charges to the 3 day notice amount.  Get a picture of the dog on the premises (maybe looking out the window).  I personally put tenant is responsible for all utilities in my leases.  I would consider going after the real estate agent's errors and omissions insurance - clearly not doing what they are supposed to be doing

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