Tenant threatening to sue for deposit despite owing rent

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Tenant threatening to sue for deposit despite owing rent

Janier Larcheveaux
Investor · Bowie, MD · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote

I have a tenant whom I found through a program which pays their security deposit and the first two months of rent.  She had at times complained about squirrels and mice and I sent the exterminator out anytime she contacted me.  She was short on rent a few months and requested rental assistance for which I had to write a letter though I have yet to see a check.  She moved a few months ago without giving proper notice and without making the last month's payment on top of what was already owed.  She's now threatening to sue me for for not returning her deposit and for damage to furniture which she claims she incurred as a result of the squirrels and mice.  I also have a number of text messages in which she stated that everything was "great" with the apartment.  Does she have a leg to stand on?  I'm concerned since this is in Baltimore City and I've seen and had tenants get away with the most egregious of claims.

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Shawn Davis
Investor · Wilsonville, OR · Member since 2014 · 59 posts · 51 votes
10y

hi Janier - Ned is right.  It sure sounds like you had several legitimate reasons to withhold portions of the security deposit but it will ultimately come down to weather you properly documented the renter's deficiencies and if you did a proper and timely security deposit accounting per The laws in Massachusettes.  Imagine that the judge won't let you talk at all - can you tell the story through proper documentation?  If you did, I wouldn't be too concerned with her threats, but if not...  

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  • Chris T.
    Investor · Downers Grove, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 955 votes
    10y

    if I were you, go find a good real estate or eviction lawyer for ideas. Then figure out what you "owe" her, and what the legal fees you might incur. Unfortunately, neither one are good options. 

    If she moves out without notice, maybe she broke a lease or a contract? Or maybe you can approach the program who found you this tenant. Maybe they have a process when disputes like this happens. 

    And here's the disclaimer where I am not a lawyer, and any legal advice should be consulted with one. 

    Good luck!

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  • Sai T.
    Investor · West Chester , PA · Member since 2011 · 620 posts · 138 votes
    10y

    Be fair and do what is right(legally) and do not be afraid of empty vessels makes most noise!

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  • Michele FischerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    If you stepped through the process legally, I'd hold firm.  Good idea above to visit the program location and give your side of the story to see if they can calm her down and/or give you any info to work with.  Hopefully she has not made contact with those free lawyers that like to make landlords miserable.  We have a tenant who likes to threaten us, but it is an empty threat.  We have learned to encourage him to follow through, act like it doesn't phase us, that we are confident in our position, emphasizing that we do everything by the book.  If it does go to court, having a deposit disbursements letter showing that she owes, and the fact that she didn't tell you about the furniture earlier, and proof that she was happy and you responded quickly should go a long way.

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  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Maryland, as most states do,  has strict rules regarding security deposits.  She may be entitled to as much as triple damages if you did not follow the rules.  I don't specifically recall the rules but you can go to BNI (Baltimore Neighborhoods Inc) to find out more. 

    As I recall you have to send them why you are withholding the deposit with specified damages within 45 days.

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  • Shawn Davis
    Investor · Wilsonville, OR · Member since 2014 · 59 posts · 51 votes
    10y

    hi Janier - Ned is right.  It sure sounds like you had several legitimate reasons to withhold portions of the security deposit but it will ultimately come down to weather you properly documented the renter's deficiencies and if you did a proper and timely security deposit accounting per The laws in Massachusettes.  Imagine that the judge won't let you talk at all - can you tell the story through proper documentation?  If you did, I wouldn't be too concerned with her threats, but if not...  

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  • Janier Larcheveaux
    OP
    Investor · Bowie, MD · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Thanks everyone for your feedback and well wishes!   I'm pretty sure I'm well past the 45 day period for informing her why I'm withholding the deposit despite having spoken and texted numerous times.  I had another tenant contact a shady attorney about a failure to pay notice and the tenant was advised to wait until I sue her.  I love BNI...that is when I can finally get them on the phone.  I recently enlisted the help of a property manager who is also in contact with the tenant.  Should I just forward my documentation to her? 

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  • Janier Larcheveaux
    OP
    Investor · Bowie, MD · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Unfortunately I was out of the country for a few weeks since my dad wasn't doing well.  He passed on father's day. That's primarily why I took on a property manager in the first place.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    now my advice is probably not correct. .but if it was me.. I would do what these dead beat tenants do and simply go dark on them.. I would not answer them or engage them in any way.

    I have had this happen to me a few times in the deep south even to the point of the free legal aid attornies writing me letters.. I just Ignore them I have yet to have a dead beat tenant take me to court. @Account Closed  this whole thing about a judge is just flaming bull crap they never get in front of a judge they can hardly do anything much less present a case in a court of law.. you guys with this judge crap get over it. 

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  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs I was with you until the second paragraph. I agree most complainers like tenants will never make the effort to take the issue any further. 

    However if someone does get in front of a judge it can cost you. There are plenty of tenant advocates here in MD and sadly some of them wear judges robes. We have had some pretty outrageous court rulings here in MD.

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  • Janier Larcheveaux
    OP
    Investor · Bowie, MD · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    @JayHinrichs Baltimore City is like a whole other planet.  I once had a tenant file an escrow case about a repair she'd never reported.  I sprung for a hotel room for the night so my contractors could work. She spent the night in the hotel then came back first thing in the morning and wouldn't let the contractors in.  Despite the effort on my part I still ended up losing $1,000.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Ned Carey  I hear ya... that's why I said don't take my advice and just said what I do.. If one of these dead beats got one over on me that's fine.. but you really get tired of that tenant base and their entitlement thought process.. Ergo from 350 rentals I am down to 6.. and the only thing I have on my horizon is building a 180 unit A class apartment here in Oregon which will have very few subsidized renters if any.. and if they are in there they will mine their peas and cues.. landlords here simply will not take on the risk of these types of tenants.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Janier Larcheveaux  it sounds like a tough place to landlord and ergo that's why the values of the properties in comparision to rent is so dog gone low.. you need that to mitigate all this BS you have to deal with..

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  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Janier Larcheveaux:

    I have a tenant whom I found through a program which pays their security deposit and the first two months of rent.  She had at times complained about squirrels and mice and I sent the exterminator out anytime she contacted me.  She was short on rent a few months and requested rental assistance for which I had to write a letter though I have yet to see a check.  She moved a few months ago without giving proper notice and without making the last month's payment on top of what was already owed.  She's now threatening to sue me for for not returning her deposit and for damage to furniture which she claims she incurred as a result of the squirrels and mice.  I also have a number of text messages in which she stated that everything was "great" with the apartment.  Does she have a leg to stand on?  I'm concerned since this is in Baltimore City and I've seen and had tenants get away with the most egregious of claims.

     Janier, texts are legal as written documents.  So, I'm wondering if your texts explained anything about how much you were keeping from her deposit and/or why you were keeping it?

    If you did, and especially if texting was your normal form of communication, then if I was you, I'd tell her to go ahead and sue you, because you've done everything by the book.  That texts are written electronic communications which are acceptable by the courts, so she had written notice on time.  And in fact, if she sues you, you will counter-sue her for all the additional money she actually owes you.  Or, she can agree in writing, to call it square the way it is.

    I also used to tell tenants that if they wanted to sue, that was fine.  I'd be happy to have a judge make a fair decision on the matter, but if they choose to go that route, I'll be counter-suing and asking the judge to make them pay my court costs if I win.

    And look for a tenant who has more to lose next time.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    10y

    to answer the first question, and as someone who has as much or more Baltimore city court experience than anyone else on this website, and can affirmatively state that you have zero to worry about, assuming what you are stating is accurate. why?

    1. she is owed zero, she owed you more than her deposit when she left, you kept the deposit as a result. 

    2. being that she left without advance notice, she also owes you rent for the vacancy that followed (usually a max of 1 additional month)

    3. any damage to the unit? any stuff that you had to haul out of hers? add that to what she owes also.

    no leg to stand on.... the "3 x  security deposit is usually nothing to worry about if you owe her nothing. let her sue you, she'll lose

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  • Janier Larcheveaux
    OP
    Investor · Bowie, MD · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Thanks Seth. That's really reassuring.

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  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Wait a sec....am I missing something here?

    Your first sentence stated you found this tenant through a program that  "pays the security deposit and first two months of rent".

    Is this what happened?  If so, was the tenant required to pay back this amount to the program?

    If not, the security deposit is NOT her money.

    As others have suggested, I'd not have ANY communication with this former tenant.  Zippo.  Nada.  Many threaten to sue, few follow through.

    In fact, what's the main reason landlords don't sue former tenants who leave owing them big bucks?  Because they know even if they win, they are unlikely to collect.

    If a former tenant sued me over such nonsense and won, it would be a cold day in a hot place before I'd pay them a penny.  How would they get this money?  I'm retired (no wage garnishment).  The tenants have no way of knowing my bank account information (no bank garnishment).  A lien on my properties?  They're all paid for and I don't plan on selling anything soon.  

    In other words, sue all you want; you'll be wasting your time doing so.

    Gail

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