appliances in the house being abused? who should pay?

appliances in the house being abused? who should pay?

Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2014 · 60 posts · 26 votes

We installed a new dryer less than 3 yrs ago in the rental rowhouse. The new tenant who moved in last fall said the lint trap/plastic for it for this dryer just broke and needs to be replaced as it keeps falling out while drying and makes a lot of noise. The lint trap & plastic to hold the lint trap are inside the back of the dryer (vs. typical in front & you slide it up to remove the lint). I understand that things break but in this case, the machine is pretty new and it seems like they should have been more careful when removing the lint trap to clear it out and put it back properly. Other tenants who lived there didn't have this problem. Who should pay for this replacement of the lint trap and the plastic to hold it? It's costing more than $75 just for these small very minor parts. Yes, washer and dryer are included in the house/rent. Since they've moved in we've already had to replace the microwave  as the handle was broken (how does a microwave handle just get broken?) and our contractor said the top of the microwave was crushed--how does the top of a microwave installed above the stove get crushed? And just a few wks ago we've had to replace the entire washing machine--OK it's about 8-9 yrs old, and things break.  I've already said we'll pay for the new lint trap and plastic part but warned them that we're going out of way to do this.  I assume since the washer & dryer is part of the house and the rent, we as landlord should pay for  it? But would it be unreasonable that they pay for it since they should just be more careful when using our appliances? Should we have charged them for this?

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Residential Real Estate Broker · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 506 posts · 311 votes
10y

I prefer to list washer/dryer/refrigerator as items the landlord will not repair.

They are working when they take possession, if my client wants to include them.  

When I have a technician ( a professional) repair something like the microwave door, I ask them to list the cause of the failure as well, so I have a professional opinion if they say it was abuse.

Making tenants pay the first $X of service calls on your property is an invitation to disaster. How long will they tolerate that leak that's rotting out your cabinet bottom to keep from spending their money?  The whole lease?

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  • Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
    10y

    Your Residential Lease Agreement should outline all the appliances that are in the unit (make, model, serial number; that the described appliances belong to the Landlord; and are Tenants' responsibility to maintain/repair.

    Further, your Residential Lease Agreement should have a paragraph that states "Tenant shall be responsible for the first $125.00 of incidental repairs."

  • Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 531 posts · 266 votes
    10y

    There is a certain cost of doing business when owning rental properties. So far IF they have caused a $175 worth of damages between the microwave and lint trap.... seems insignificant to me.

  • Contractor · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 155 posts · 37 votes
    10y

    It's crazy the things tenants break, our previous tenants broke the celing fan, the microwave and glass sliding door all in one month! We replaced the microwave because it stated on the lease only because it was old but when we put in a new one we revised the lease and had them sign it that if this microwave breaks THEY will need to replace it, guess what it never broke.

    We replaced celing fan and sliding door we deducted from their deposit.

    We never include washer and dryer they need to bring there own.

    When appliances are broken by tenants we do replace with semi used ones and have them sign a revised lease that they agree to replace if they brake it. We have had success with it. 

    For your next lease add that appliances are in working condition and have them sign it stating that yes appliances do work and that they will replace if damaged by them or anyone they invite to the property. 

    Good luck. :)

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    Since you don't have any proof that it's being abused, only your suspicion, and if you didn't address this in the lease, you should consider it a learning experience, replace the items and go from there. There are certain appliances that you should probably prefer not to include in a lease, unless you address repairs or state that what is there is for their enjoyment but if/when it dies you will not replace - washer, dryer, and microwave would be three right off the bat. Refrigerators and stoves rarely break, and dishwashers are fairly good too. Washers and dryers can be abused (it's hard to abuse a refrigerator) by putting too much clothes in, not cleaning the traps, etc, and a microwave can be run with no items, metallic items, etc. 

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  • Residential Real Estate Broker · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 506 posts · 311 votes
    10y

    I prefer to list washer/dryer/refrigerator as items the landlord will not repair.

    They are working when they take possession, if my client wants to include them.  

    When I have a technician ( a professional) repair something like the microwave door, I ask them to list the cause of the failure as well, so I have a professional opinion if they say it was abuse.

    Making tenants pay the first $X of service calls on your property is an invitation to disaster. How long will they tolerate that leak that's rotting out your cabinet bottom to keep from spending their money?  The whole lease?

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @JD Martin:

    Since you don't have any proof that it's being abused, only your suspicion, and if you didn't address this in the lease, you should consider it a learning experience, replace the items and go from there. There are certain appliances that you should probably prefer not to include in a lease, unless you address repairs or state that what is there is for their enjoyment but if/when it dies you will not replace - washer, dryer, and microwave would be three right off the bat. Refrigerators and stoves rarely break, and dishwashers are fairly good too. Washers and dryers can be abused (it's hard to abuse a refrigerator) by putting too much clothes in, not cleaning the traps, etc, and a microwave can be run with no items, metallic items, etc. 

    You are completely correct. When I get a new property, I remove the washer and dryer. I let the tenant bring their own. I remove the microwave if it is above stove and replace with a fan hood. I remove whole house humidifiers and water softeners. All of these items can break with abuse and they are not essential to getting the place rented.

    It is hard to prove tenant abuse so you are probably stuck paying it. Warn them to be more careful.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Judy Parker:

    Your Residential Lease Agreement should outline all the appliances that are in the unit (make, model, serial number; that the described appliances belong to the Landlord; and are Tenants' responsibility to maintain/repair.

    Further, your Residential Lease Agreement should have a paragraph that states "Tenant shall be responsible for the first $125.00 of incidental repairs."

     I am very interested in your clause about the $125 of incidental repairs. I have heard this suggestion before, but it seems like it could create conflict with tenants over legitimate things out of their control. I am just curious what your experience is with this? How long you have had this policy and do tenants respond ok to it? I think it is a wonderful idea, just curious how practical it will be for me to implement.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    We start out the tenancy by having some clear rules in our rental agreement about appliances and by demonstrating to our tenants how to use appliances. We also leave a copy of the user's manual for each appliance at the location. Here is are excerpts from our Property Rules that have proven helpful:

    "APPLIANCES. Appliances included in the rental of the premises, as noted in the rental agreement, such as a refrigerator, range, dishwasher, clothes washer or clothes dryer, belong to Landlord. If Tenant wishes to use these appliances, Tenant agrees to use them properly in accordance with manufacturer instructions and assumes all responsibility for their care and cleaning. In the event there is a malfunction of an appliance or an appliance is in need of repair, Tenant agrees to notify Landlord in a timely manner and in writing. If Tenant wishes to use their own appliances, Tenant agrees to contact Landlord in advance to obtain prior written approval and instructions, as the removal and installation of appliances must be done with care to prevent damage to the appliance and/or building."

    "DAMAGES. Tenant agrees to pay for repairs of all damages that they or their guests have caused. Landlord agrees to initiate repairs in a timely manner following discovery of the damage or can choose to defer repair until Tenant has vacated the premises. Repairs done by a professional will be billed at the professional rate. Repairs done by Landlord will be billed by the job or as labor plus materials."

    ----------

    A dryer lint screen needs to be in place and functional to prevent further damage to the appliance or worse. I would replace the part, but also I would have an open and honest conversation with the tenant. If I had failed to demonstrate use of the appliance and/or failed to leave a users manual with the appliance, and the tenant accidentally caused the part to break, then I would assume the cost of the repair. If the tenant had been negligent in their use of the appliance and caused the breakage, then I would charge the tenant for the replacement part. If it was not entirely clear, I might negotiate 50/50 with the tenant. 

    We do not require tenants to pay the first $xxx of a repair as that would be counterproductive, as they may be hesitant to report problems as they occur. We need tenants to report problems in a timely manner. We will charge when appropriate to do so and immediately, so then tenant is still on the hook for taking care of the property and paying for their damages.

    If you wait until the end of tenancy to subtract the amount from the security deposit, the tenant will learn they do not have to pay for damages as they occur and will learn that whatever happens can just be taken from the security deposit. We want the security deposit intact to cover whatever else might happen during the course of tenancy. We charge for damages as they occur, even if we choose to defer replacing or repairing the item. Generally we repair/replace as soon as we can. However, if the tenancy is near an end and/or the tenant is not taking care of our property, we may want to defer doing the repair/replacement until after they are gone.

  • Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2014 · 60 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    Thank you everyone for your input and @Marcia Maynard for your lease text. Always continuing to learn & deal with what ever comes next... 

  • Investor · Member since 2015 · 222 posts · 173 votes
    10y

    @Marcia Maynard

    "We do not require tenants to pay the first $xxx of a repair as that would be counterproductive, as they may be hesitant to report problems as they occur. We need tenants to report problems in a timely manner."  

    I agree with the above 100%.

    "However, if the tenancy is near an end and/or the tenant is not taking care of our property, we may want to defer doing the repair/replacement until after they are gone."

    I'm a little confused with your above statement, because the tenant is paying rent for a fully functioning appliance.  Do you let them take some money off the rent, if you choose not to repair an appliance? My own clothes washer broke after 2 years, so it is entirely possible that it is not "abuse" by the tenant.  It seems odd to me that landlords would ask tenants to pay for repairs that are due to their use when they do not own the appliance.  

    My units have a clothes washer and dryer, microwave, dishwasher, refrigerator and stove and they run for 10 - 15 years without issues.  Maybe I am just lucky? 

    The biggest incentive for my tenants to take care of my property and appliances is that they like living there, the rent is fair and they do not want me to ask them to leave when their lease is up. 

  • Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 716 posts · 313 votes
    10y

    Sarah is right cost of doing business ,I had a dryer knob it was broke ,had a different tenant not change a furnace filter may have caused damage but it was still under warranty they are all know the plan now .Plus it was a learning tool for me too,train tenants in all aspects of all mechanical in the house .

  • HVAC Tech · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2015 · 423 posts · 223 votes
    10y

    Another thing to consider is quality of material, Appliances, equipment, being installed in the first place. I do hvac work for a lot of landlords, so I'm around alot when houses are getting remodeled, fixed up for the next tenant. Some, not all landlords like to buy the cheapest crap available, and then to top it off they have the cheapest "handyman" doing the work. Sometimes I just think to myself "the poor future tenant, he ain't getting none of his deposit back, all this stuff is guaranteed to break. 

  • Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    I only provide a cheaper fridge and stove.  The rest is up to tenants.  In fact if someone leaves a functioning wash/dryer or other appliance.  On to Craigslist they go.

  • Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 716 posts · 313 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jacob Sampson:

    I only provide a cheaper fridge and stove.  The rest is up to tenants.  In fact if someone leaves a functioning wash/dryer or other appliance.  On to Craigslist they go.

     This not a bad idea they are they ones that are going  to break down cost money to fix.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James R.:

    @Marcia Maynard

    "We do not require tenants to pay the first $xxx of a repair as that would be counterproductive, as they may be hesitant to report problems as they occur. We need tenants to report problems in a timely manner."  

    I agree with the above 100%.

    "However, if the tenancy is near an end and/or the tenant is not taking care of our property, we may want to defer doing the repair/replacement until after they are gone."

    I'm a little confused with your above statement, because the tenant is paying rent for a fully functioning appliance.  Do you let them take some money off the rent, if you choose not to repair an appliance? My own clothes washer broke after 2 years, so it is entirely possible that it is not "abuse" by the tenant.  It seems odd to me that landlords would ask tenants to pay for repairs that are due to their use when they do not own the appliance.  

    My units have a clothes washer and dryer, microwave, dishwasher, refrigerator and stove and they run for 10 - 15 years without issues.  Maybe I am just lucky? 

    The biggest incentive for my tenants to take care of my property and appliances is that they like living there, the rent is fair and they do not want me to ask them to leave when their lease is up. 

    I should clarify what I meant.... Not doing a repair/replacement has only come into play when a tenant has abused the property in a negligent or intentional manner and was in the process of moving or being evicted. If it were a health/safety issue, we would attend to it regardless, such as with smoke detectors and locks. We reserve the right to defer repair/replacement for non-critical items. Most notably things like, torn window screens, holes in drywall, broken interior doors. If the tenancy is worth saving and the tenant is cooperative, then we will make the repairs or replace the components as the need occurs.

    We haven't had a situation where we did not repair/replace a required appliance. However, in some of our SFRs we do have some optional appliances that we allow tenants to use with the written understanding that the appliance is provided "as is" and will not be repaired/replaced if it breaks down or wears out.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I've charged tenants for a repair once:

    I had a part break on the washing machine. Chalked up up to normal wear and tear. Then the same part broke again within 6 months. The appliance repair guy told me that could only happen from overloading the machine. I had him write that up on his invoice.

    Tenants protested a bit but I had documentation from the professional. You can only charge for what you can prove.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    Also keep in mind it is hard to pinpoint with turnover who was responsible for the damage with less obvious things. As hard as I try there are small things that turn up with a new tenant that were the old tenants fault.  We had one set of tenants move in and we have a stackable washer.  They called to say it was leaking not bad but just dripping from the front seal. We came to find out there was a spring that the previous tenants had lost or damaged to secure the seal.  I would be inclined to think the dryer lint trap would be potentially the same type of issue. 

    On the other hand if the top of the microwave was crushed I would be inclined to have charged them. That is abuse and it is unlikely I would have missed it on turnover.

  • Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    10y

    I have tenants sign a used appliance agreement that they are responsible for repair....

    Check out the agreement in the BP fileplace.  I have uploaded the agreement to share....


    Franklin

  • HVAC mechanic · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 241 posts · 57 votes
    10y

    It's in my lease that tenants are responsible for any maintainance on all appliances in the property 

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    10y

    Updating the next version of my lease, thanks for the input everyone especially @Marcia Maynard

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