Damage Deposit Itemization - how detailed do you get?

Question

I have a difficult tenant who I gave 30 day notice of non renewal on his month to month lease, moved out 1/2/16 (2 days late). He and his family have been very difficult with the move out; his son has told me he will break back into the house (filed a report with the city police dept and informed the tenant of his son's threat and my report), he insists that they "took excellent care of the house" and is expecting his full deposit back. To give a general idea of some of the mess they left - left it with 2/3rd of the lightbulbs burnt out, holes in 4 doors, very poorly patched holes in the walls in more than 5 locations, missing showerhead, missing ceiling lights, excessive mold, large hole knocked into paneling, enough garbage to overflow a roofing trash trailer, 2 tvs (1 stood 4' tall), cobwebs and filthy walls, excessively filthy carpet including over 15 dog male (squiggly!) separate dog urine deposits (we are replacing due to the damage and not charging anything towards his deposit, as it is already exhausted).

He refused to attend a final walk through, despite my offer of any time at all on the final day. He chose 4:00 for the walk through. At 12:00 I texted a reminder. At 2:30 he called and said that he had left the keys on the counter and the house unlocked and would not be coming back for the walk through. He had indeed left every window and every door unlocked. I did a video walk through, took a ton of pictures, and noted his refusal to do the walk through when I filled out the final walk through form. Kept all text messages and voice mail.

??How much do you itemize out? Because his only reply to my message about the extent of the damage has been to acknowledge the missing shower head, a "little trash", and he "already apologized for the tvs", he is angry about being charged 2 days pro-rated rent, and his history of being difficult (and his son's history of trouble with the police), I am anticipating some anger when I tell him there is no refund. I have so far itemized out every invoice/expense. Damages have exceeded his deposit even without including much of the paid labor.

Do I itemize in hopes that he will see the extent of damages (and all the things he isn't being charged for due to the exhaustion of his deposit), and hope to avoid additional issues with this family? Or is that a futile hope?

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks,

Suzanne

Nathan Gesner · Answer

How to return deposits

I suspect he is a bully trying to scare you into giving him some money even though he knows he is wrong.

Do not be too specific. For example, my letter may look something like this:

• 1. Remove furniture and trash: $200
• 2. Cleaning, 10 hours: $250
• 3. Replace 12 light bulbs: $60
• 
• 4. Replace missing shower head: $75
• 5. Two days additional rent: $80

Total charges: $665

Tenant paid a $600 security deposit. After applying the deposit, tenant account is in arrears for $65.

You may only pay $2 a light bulb, but it also takes you time to purchase them and install them, which is why there is a $5 charge per bulb. It's even more if they are specialty bulbs like the globe bulbs in bathrooms, LED bulbs, flood lights, etc.

I suggest you keep it simple and factual. SAMPLE LETTER

I've gone to recording move-in and move-out inspections with pictures AND video. The video is saved to my YouTube channel and kept private. If the tenant attempts to fight the charges, I send them a link to the hidden video. It shuts them up every time because they see with their own eyes that I have proof. The reason I still take pictures is because it shows the problem areas better and it's easier to send copies to a collection agency or an attorney when going after the tenant.

One last thing: I do not allow tenants to be present for a final inspection because they will try to distract you from things. I give tenants an opportunity to conduct a "pre-inspection" any time prior to their actual move-out. I go over cleaning tips, point out problem areas, and answer questions. I also remind them that my pre-inspection can't catch everything and I will conduct a final inspection after their departure and by myself. I try to do the final inspection 2-3 days after move-out because it gives the cleaning supplies time to clear out so the true odors present come back. I've been in homes that smelled pretty good on the day of move-out but two days later reeked of animals or smoke!

Nathan Gesner · Answer

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with Account Closed. You are allowed to charge for items beyond "ordinary wear and tear." I suspect the vast majority of home owners have never had a shower head disappear on them. Burned out bulbs are ordinary wear and tear, but 2/3 is excessive and it is ordinary to replace them, which your tenant should have done. Filthy walls would be ordinary wear and tear if it occurred over a ten-year period, but not in one year. Nancy also tells you not to mention mold, which I disagree with. If you can demonstrate the mold was not present prior to occupancy and that it is likely caused by their lack of proper ventilation, they should be charged for it.

I missed something earlier that is extremely important. You said you were replacing carpet due to the damage and "not charging anything towards his deposit, as it is already exhausted." This is a mistake! You should list every charge to their ledger, even if you do not intend to collect, for the following reasons:

• Seeing a full list of charges will discourage the tenant from taking you to court, particularly if you have photographs or video to back up your claim.
• If the tenant does take you to court, you can defend yourself AND make a counter-claim for the full amount charged. The judge may be more sympathetic to your case if they see that you were owed $2,000 but were willing to forgive $1,000.
• If you send the tenant an itemized list showing $1,000 in charges and then show up in court saying there was actually $2,000 in damages, it will look like you are trying to exaggerate the situation. Be honest with the full amount start to finish.
• Imagine spending the $1,000 deposit on cleaning and repairs but not listing the $1,000 charge for replacing carpet. You show up in court and for some reason the judge decides to throw out some of your charges. He says you should have only spent $500 of the deposit. Because you didn't include the $1,000 charge for the carpet, the tenant is now owed a $500 refund. He might even be allowed up to 3x that amount because of your negligence!

Keep track of everything. Charge for everything on the itemized list, even if you do not intend to go after it. Do not ever tell the tenant you are forgiving the charges because you may need to change your mind later on and go after them. When I send them a list, I tell them they have 30 days to provide a written appeal, pay the amount owed, or request a payment plan. After the 30 days are over, I can make the choice of going after them or just filing it away.

Marcia Maynard · Answer

When a tenant moves-in, we give them "Move-Out Instructions" which includes information such as "What is proper notice?" and "What is required to get your security deposit back?" We also include a Settlement Charges Guide (such as that from the Landlord Protection Agency), which we adjust to match typical prices in our area. This gives tenants a heads up from the beginning as to what to expect if they damage our property.

When they move-out, we prepare the "Deposit/Move-Out Report". We state Credits for Prepaid Rent and for Security Deposit. We state Debits for Unpaid Rent, Unpaid Utilities, Unpaid Fees, Missing Items, Damages, Extra Cleaning, Extra Trash Removal, Other.

We charge for everything we can, if it is legitimate and reasonable to do so. Even if the charges exceed the security deposit, we include everything. Even if we know the tenant will not pay us anything more or are uncollectible, we will charge it. We itemize under each category with specifics, here is an example from one of our move-outs:

CREDIT

Amount held as Security Deposit: $800

DEBIT

Less Deductions for Missing Items: $30

10 year lithium battery from smoke detector ($10)

Seat cushion from kitchen bench ($20)

Less Deductions for Damages: $170

Patio – stain ($20)

Living Room – one broken window pane ($50)

Living Room – five inch spot on carpet from black sharpie pen ($50)

Living Room – one broken wand on blinds ($5)

Front Bedroom – one bent curtain rod ($5)

Back Bedroom - door handle bent ($10)

Kitchen - cabinet drawer wood broken ($30)

Less for Extra Cleaning $110

Stove Top ($25)

Range Hood ($20)

Kitchen Sink ($20)

Ceiling Fan ($15)

Walls – extra cleaning of grime & pen marks ($10)

Floor Vents - debris in ducts ($10)

Outside Debris ($10)

Less for Unpaid Utilities $12

Electric (changed by tenant too early, $12 for Nov 20 to Nov 30)

[Credits $800 Less Debits $322 = $468]

Total Due from Landlord to Tenant (Check Enclosed) $468

Aly W. · Answer

I'm very sorry this happened to you. I know exactly how you feel.

I had a tenant once leave the property with over $6K in damage, having broken the lease and given my contractor the keys after dark. The place was a wreck, and despite before/after photos, the tenant insisted the place was in as good a condition as when he moved in.

Because he broke the lease with 4 days notice, he did not get the deposit back anyway, and he was not collectible. But I still had my contractor write an invoice detailing everything with the cost to repair/replace, and made sure the tenant got a certified letter within the timeframe of the law. My lease states tenants are required to replace light bulbs and smoke detector batteries; my FL attorney wrote the lease. If a tenant leaves the place clean, I don't deduct for those items. If they trash the place, I hold them to every term in the lease when itemizing security deposit deductions.

Cleaning is a listed expense if it's extreme; no need to list cobwebs specifically. If a tenant leaves the place clean and empty, I still pay for a cleaning service before the next tenant, but I don't charge the departing one. Unless, again, it's extreme, and it sounds like you have enough proof that it was.

Tenants like this live in denial, yet they are very bold when making threats. I've evicted tenants for non-payment who threaten to take me to court to get their deposit back. I simply send them the deduction list, plus an invoice for what they still owe me, and then wait for the summons - which never comes. The tenant has a certain amount of time to contest the deductions. I've never had one do it.

Account Closed · Answer

A judge will not allow the replacement of light bulbs (landlord's responsibility)

You can charge for the following:

• Holes in door
• Poorly patched holes in the wall
• Shower head, (Depends on the Judge)
• Missing Ceiling Lights (light bulbs?) If they are the expensive ones, perhaps.
• MOLD !!! You say Mold, and YOU are responsible . I wouldn't mention mold if I were you!
• Garbage removal is allowed
• Removal of TV's
• YOU CANNOT CHARGE FOR CLEANING COBWEBS and WALLS !!!
• Carpet cleaning or replacement due to dog urine...allowable. Get proof.
•

Always check your state law just to make sure.

What you can charge is based on a Judges Opinion and not on law, as there isn't any LAW on the books for normal wear and tear type scenarios.

Nancy Neville

Fred Dray · Answer

Nathan G. gives you very good advice. As long as you documented damages with pix/video/writing then give basic information for charges. The more detailed/information you give, the more ammo the tenant has if they choose to fight which it seems they will.

Keep your vendor receipts for all work done. If excessive, have them include notes in their receipts. Based on length of stay, don't forget to include painting/cleaning.

Don't allow tenants to be present for final inspection. However offering a pre-move out inspection within two weeks of move out date is wise. This way you could document things like holes in doors and have the tenant sign.

Don't worry about "tenant insistence" as you have visual and written proof to the contrary. Just be fair with what you withhold and look forward to a better experience with your next tenant. good luck

Mike F. · Answer

No deposit and send him a bill for the rest. He will willing stop asking for his deposit when he gets an additional bill for $2000.00. It's up to you whether you want to pursue him for the additional costs, but at least at that point he's out of your hair and done harassing you over the security deposit.

Heather O. · Answer

Thanks for the discussion, battling similar issue myself. Mixed feelings of relief that the worst tenants have left, but they are not truly out of your life until they get over not getting back their deposits.

S Harper · Answer

Sorry Nancy - guess I wasn't clear. I listed the condition of the property to give a feel for the lack of care to the property vs. tenant's insistence that it is in 'excellent' condition, and to give an idea of his behavior. I always make sure to comply with state descriptions as to what is damage vs. wear and tear. This is the first time that I have had to withhold more than 25% of a damage deposit, and this is my most challenging tenant.

My question was how specific to get in the letter to the former tenant.

Nathan - I am sure you are right re:pressure to give him money. Uploading the video to YouTube is a great idea! Going to upload this one today.

Thanks for the advice on generalizing. I tend to break it down too much, which might give him places to push back.

I like having the tenant present for the walk through so that they sign off on the forms and can't say that damage occurred after they left, but the form also states that damage is not limited to what is listed at the walk through and landlord has 30 days to finalize the damage report. I have found too many surprises while reconditioning a rental to not take the 30 days. Luckily our state gives 30 days to return damage deposit itemization, longer if your lease states differently, up to a maximum of 60 days.

Damage Deposit Itemization - how detailed do you get?

Damage Deposit Itemization - how detailed do you get?

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