My lawyer is worthless, right?

Question

I saw a lawyer yesterday to get advice on becoming a first-time landlord and I feel like it was a big waste of time and money. I feel like BiggerPockets forums provide better legal advice than this guy.

When he told me that I don't need to retain my rental application records, I became worried that this lawyer isn't giving me good advice. Then, he also told me I don't need to document my tenant screening criteria and that I should rent to males instead of females because "in his generation" females were tougher on properties.

I should fire this guy right?

I've learned a ton on BiggerPockets, but I felt like I should visit an attorney to validate what I'm learning here. I'm not crazy am I? This guy is giving terrible advice right?

Paul Choate · Answer

OK attorney here. I am am often required to apologize for the actions and words of other attorneys. Sorry for your experience. As previous posters have said, there is a wide variation in quality and competence among attorneys. I have found there is value in the collected wisdom here on Bp. It is a great starting point.

The big issue is you do need a licensed opinion when it comes to specifics which may vary in different jurisdictions. When it comes to selection an attorney, it might be helpful to know that the majority of bar complaints come from attorneys in practice more than 20 years followed by attorneys in practice less than 5 years. Not saying you shouldn't hire someone young or old. Just know there is little oversight when attorneys are starting out or winding down. Next, general practice attorneys have a hard time keeping up with all of the requirements of every possible situation. I started out trying to do everything and it was a disservice to my clients. I have since focused on one area of law. I feel I provide a higher level of expertise for a lower price.

Referrals are good, but you should ask the attorney what percentage of their practice is related to the specific type of law you are dealing with. Also, verify with the individual who referred they what they did for them.

And last but not least, some people are jerks or incompetent. You just need to move on if what they are saying doesn't square with what you know and they are not willing to explain why.

Kyle J. · Answer

Sounds like he's giving you advice that ensures future business for himself when you get sued for discrimination. Yep, find a new lawyer.

Scott Gray · Answer

I would find another attorney merely based on his attitude.

Dawn Anastasi · Answer

I've been told by an attorney to keep copies of my application records for 2 years because that's the statute of limitations for discrimination cases.  He said I don't need to keep them on paper, if I scan them into the computer then delete them after 2 years I'm good.

Secondly, he also said to keep a written copy of the tenant screening criteria with the applications, because that may be needed in case of a discrimination lawsuit.  So if someone is denied, you can show that it was because they did not meet your written screening criteria, not because you were unfairly discriminating against them.

Renting to males and not to females is pretty clear-cut gender discrimination right there.  Gender is a protected class.

James DeRoest · Answer

Wouldn't get too disheartened, there are a lot of crap lawyers out there.

We've run into a few here, professional realty lawyers who are just useless. One that seemed not to know anything about the closing process and was continually led by his assistant, who had also somehow lost the escrow money - at closing!

Another lawyer bitch that I the displeasure of closing with, she chose a time for closing one day, and when I arrived, she was at lunch, she berated the staff in front of me for stupid stuff, really struggled with the power of attorney we have used for years (made by another local lawyer) and ended up writing her own power of attorney - That she wouldn't even let us keep hold of??? Dopey woman did not realize that a power of attorney is held by the guy whose name is at the top, not the lawyer and certainly not the title company. But she did charge us for her time to prepare that new power of attorney, which was nice.

When closing finished, she simply closed the file and left the room. Left her receptionist to let me out. I had been pleasant all the way through this.

I made some enquiries about something when I got back, and she bitched me out in email, and cc'd it to her entire office, I duly took the bitch down a peg or three, called her unprofessional and pointed out that even lawyers use capital letters when composing emails on an iPhone. And a bunch of other stuff. Man, it was a moment I cherish.

So anyway, after all that, we found one realty lawyer locally who is simply excellent. It took time, wouldn't leave that practice for anything.

Here's a tip, whenever you close, try and specify your realty lawyer for closing every time. You will pay a little more (not much), but you will always get proper legal advice from them, advice that a title company can never give.

Tim Booz · Answer

Definitely find a new attorney. If you can't get a referral you may want to spend a morning sitting in on landlord tenant court. See who's representing the owners and tenants, and who seems to be well known as a regular attorney in the court. Then make a decision on who to contact from there.

Also, make sure to be specific when asking them what type of law they practice. I use a different lawyer for landlord tenant matters than I do for real estate closings, but if you asked them if they handle real estate matters they'd both answer "yes".

Darrell Shepherd · Answer

WTH?  Yeah, get rid of that guy pronto.  As a lawyer he pretty much just advised you to break fair housing laws.

I assume he was talking about rental apps that you didnt rent to?  I keep them for a month or two and then toss them.   I'm pretty far from landlord of the century status, though.  Not my bag.

Never throw away anything on your tenant.  I keep that stuff for years.

And just for the record, females are only harder on the property if they've got kids or let their abusive boyfriends move in (had my lessons there).

Account Closed · Answer

Run run run!  Find attorney that specializes in landlord-tenant law in your area.

There are a lot of different attorneys out there. I find some have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to landlord-tenant law in our area.

Stephen Lassiter · Answer

Thanks @Dawn Anastasi. Yeah, I had just got done verifying that I could deny smokers and he said sure because they're not a protected class, and then he later recommends I not rent to females, a protected class. Unreal.

My lawyer is worthless, right?

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