Any Thoughts On 30 versus 15 Year Amortization?

Any Thoughts On 30 versus 15 Year Amortization?

Salem, NH · Member since 2013 · 66 posts · 19 votes

Good Morning All...

I signed  contract to purchase my first rental property.  It's a townhouse (i.e. two floors on each side) style duplex, and is the only multi family property in this neighborhood (the entre town is predominantly single family homes).  Because of the location (centrally located to the main highway, supermarkets, restaurants, major mall), and the quality of the property (definitely higher end property, for a rental), I suspect that I'm not going to have a great deal of difficulty renting either unit, when one unit does become vacant.  Each side is rented for $1600.00, and neither existing tenant wants to leave.  I've reached the point where I'm debating on a 30 versus 15 year amortization.  Obviously, the 30 would result in more cash flow, from month to month.  The 15 year would obviously build equity a whole lot faster (giving me the ability to leverage the asset a couple of years down the road), and would still result in a positive cash flow (just to a much lesser degree).  The tenants pay for all utilities, including snow removal. Beyond the mortgage, my expenses include taxes ($6K per year), insurance ($1200 per year), and obviously any capital expenditures or routine maintenance that comes up. 

I'd love to hear some opinions on how other investors treat this.  I always assumed that everyone opted for a 30 year note on an investment property, just to keep the cash flow as positive as possible.  I just figured if a 15 year allows me to still stay cash flow positive, that perhaps it's worth considering.  Any and all feedback is welcomed.

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Investor · Chelsea, MI · Member since 2013 · 350 posts · 138 votes
11y

@John White , everyone brings up good points.  You need to figure out what's important to you.

One benefit of 30 year amortization is it gives you flexibility.  You can always choose to pay more than the minimum payment.  If you take the 15 year amortization payment and apply it to a 30 year amortization loan, it won't get paid off in the same amount of time because of the interest rate difference, but reasonably close.  But, if you have unexpected expenses or happen to need more cash flow for a month (or more) you can always go back to the minimum payment on your 30 year loan, but you won't be able to convince the bank to let you skip some payments if you had opted for the higher 15 year payment.

So, how much is that flexibility worth to you?  Play around with the numbers.

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  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    the faster you can pay it off the more interest and money you save unless you want to free up cash for other projects

  • Real Estate Investor / Syndicator · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 210 posts · 135 votes
    11y

    @John White 

     Its question between when you need the cash flow? If you need it now, then 30 years would be good. If you don;t need it now, you can take take the hit of paying the amortization more now and go with 15 years. For the  30 years loan, you pay more interest to the banks. Keep in mind for a 30 year loan, even after 15 years paying mortgage, you will still owe like 75% of the principal to the banks as the interest is front loaded (initial years).

    James

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    11y

    With the interest rate difference so large (30%+ most times) I opt for 15-yr if I can afford it.  For example:  a 15-yr rate could be 3.25%, 30-yr rate 3.75% - 4%.  That difference as a % is huge!  

  • Investor · Chelsea, MI · Member since 2013 · 350 posts · 138 votes
    11y

    @John White , everyone brings up good points.  You need to figure out what's important to you.

    One benefit of 30 year amortization is it gives you flexibility.  You can always choose to pay more than the minimum payment.  If you take the 15 year amortization payment and apply it to a 30 year amortization loan, it won't get paid off in the same amount of time because of the interest rate difference, but reasonably close.  But, if you have unexpected expenses or happen to need more cash flow for a month (or more) you can always go back to the minimum payment on your 30 year loan, but you won't be able to convince the bank to let you skip some payments if you had opted for the higher 15 year payment.

    So, how much is that flexibility worth to you?  Play around with the numbers.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    A 30 year mortgage is both a 30 year mortgage AND a 15 year mortgage. With the very rare exception of mortgages that do not allow pre-payments, you can pay off your 30 year mortgage in 15 years if you simply choose to send in extra money each month. However if you get behind financially you cannot pay less each month on a 15 year mortgage to extend it to 30 years. 

    I think it is financially wise to get 30 year mortgages and either pay them off at a faster rates or use the savings to build cash reserves. This does require that you have the discipline to do this but 

    A legitimate reason to choose a 15 year mortgage is the difference in interest rate but at today's low rates 1% difference doesn't make that much difference. Furthermore 3,4, or 5% interest is essentially free money. When the day returns that you have to pay 10% interest,  you may be sorry you paid off a 4% loan faster.

  • Investor · Chelsea, MI · Member since 2013 · 350 posts · 138 votes
    11y

    Wow, @Ned Carey , good timing.

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    11y

    If you plan on buying more I would do a 30 year. Why? DTI

    One of the biggest challenges an investor faces when they are growing is DTI and a 15 year more is a high payment thus reducing the amount you can borrow in the future.

  • Rental Property Investor · Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2014 · 205 posts · 136 votes
    11y

    Do 30 year mortgage. I think it's an easy decision, difference in rate is not that much and you can pay off the 30 year in 15 with small extra payments to principal. The DTI calculation factor that others mentioned and having the 'choice' to have a lower payment if you have vacancy in the future more than outweigh the .5 rate difference. If you make your largest extra principal payments very early in the mortgage period, it will have a big effect on accelerated payoff.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    @Brett Russell  that's funny. Great minds think alike.

  • Salem, NH · Member since 2013 · 66 posts · 19 votes
    11y

    Thanks for all the great feedback. Just another reason that I love this community. As an old mortgage guy, I definitely factored in the DTI, as I would like to purchase some additional properties. I think the flexibility the 30 year amortization gives me seals the deal. I make far more than the minimum mortgage payment on my primary residence, so I'll certainly do the same with my investments, when it makes sense to do so.

  • Investor · Hampton Roads, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 418 votes
    11y

    Definitely 30 year.  You can always snowball and pay it off a lot sooner.  Keep the cash for now.  As you continue to buy more properties your business model will change along with your thoughts on debt. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    $1,717.84

    Monthly Payment

    $309,210.76

    Total of 180 Payments

    $52,960.76

    Total Interest Paid

    Jan, 2030

    $1,296.38

    Monthly Payment

    $466,696.72

    Total of 360 Payments

    $154,196.72

    Total Interest Paid

    Jan, 2045

  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    a 200,000 loan at 3.25% for 15 years vs 4.25% loan for 30 years there is over $100,000 less interest 

  • Investor/Accountant/Builder · Meno, OK · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 918 votes
    11y

    for all our investment properties, we have stuck with 10 year commercial loans. For our current apartment purchase, we did do 10 yr for the seller portion, and 20 year for the bank 70% share. We are planning on paying the seller financing on a five year amortization. Then applying the payments made to the seller to start going to the bank after the first five years. We should have the complex paid off in about 11 or 12 years. 

  • Investor · Chelsea, MI · Member since 2013 · 350 posts · 138 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    a 200,000 loan at 3.25% for 15 years vs 4.25% loan for 30 years there is over $100,000 less interest 

     But there is also $75,000 more in payments during those first 15 years that could either (a) be put to other use or (b) be used to almost pay off that 30 year loan during the same time frame.  That flexibility is worth something to many people.

  • Principal · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2010 · 200 posts · 89 votes
    11y

    hey John 

     does the property cash flow on a 15 year AM?    

    i agree doing a 30 year makes the decision easy and if you maintain the same discipline that made you consider the 15 year to begin with  and you simply stay focused on paying down principal each year you can still get it done in 15 years. 

  • Salem, NH · Member since 2013 · 66 posts · 19 votes
    11y

    @Sky Mikesell 

    Yes, it does cash flow on the 15 and the 30. The cash flow is obviously significantly less with the 15 year option.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    30yr is the way to go.

    You can pay off a 30yr in 15yrs. You cant pay 

    Off a 15yr in 30yrs.

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 229 posts · 171 votes
    11y

    ^^^^^^^What @James Wise said. 

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