Denying applicant for 1 bedroom apt with kids???

Question

I recently purchased a building with one bedroom apartment so am asking this question hypothetically so that I can approach it correctly if it ever comes up in my screening.

Can you reject an applicant applying for a one bedroom apartment based on how many people would have to share a bedroom?  For example if a single Mom has 4 kids ages 17,10,8,3  am I really legally obligated to accept them  to live in a one bedroom 500 sqft if they meet my standard requirements? Or how about 4 adults saying they want to share the bedroom.

I guess my question is can I discriminate against children or number of residence if the building is unfit for families. Where is the line drawn??

It's odd if a mom dad and 16 year old son share a bedroom. Could I deny over this? But what makes that legally any different than a mom dad and a infant son sharing a bedroom?

Any opinions or advice would be appreciated.

Steve Vaughan · Answer

Good question, Jered Sturm .  With my smaller apts, I post in the ad that we follow HUD occupancy guidelines: 2 per bedroom max, kids of opposite sex over 2 yrs need their  own bedroom as well.  I blame HUD.  We have a lot of folks trying to cram as much family into an apt as possible here, so I also adopted an 'additional persons rent' clause in my lease as well.  Anybody not listed on the application who stays longer than 10 days will be charged additional person rent of -------- /per person, per month.

Jered Sturm · Answer

@Steve Vaughan

This is great I spoke with my attorney. He said the HUD guilde lines is a great idea. He also suggested speaking with local fire departments to ask about occupancy requirements by sqft.

@Steve Vaughan could you send  me the documentation you have from HUD stating the 2 adults and no child over 2 of opposite sex? It would really help. Thanks in advance.

Chris Martin · Answer

Jered Sturm

is this in Cincinnati? If so, see also http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/38427.pdf?rpp=-10&m=2&w=doc_no%3D'201301083' for regulations on size, egress, etc. 1117-19.2 is one section that may help answer the question.

Nicole A. · Answer

@Jeff  S. I feel that something like this is good for a person to know and think about ahead of time, not necessarily "worry". And how are you so certain that something could be proven as discriminatory when he would be following HUD/county guidelines on max occupancy? That would be one ridiculous judge (I know, they exist). Some people seem so afraid of court. I doubt it would go this far in the first place, but even so, he'd following rules; can't accuse someone of discriminating for that.

Jered Sturm , just never say, "I can't take you because you have too many kids." That sounds discriminating even though what you'd actually mean to say is, "I can't allow more than X amount of people in this size unit according to HUD/County rules."

Jeff S. · Answer

@Nicole W.

I am just going with the sentiments of the experts that advise us  during our REIA meetings. As much as you or I would like it to be black or white what they are saying is they think the HUD interpretation is mainly from Anglo-Saxon values where people aren't supposed to share bedrooms with the opposite sex, but that in other cultures they do so that using HUD is discriminatory. They say it is a lawsuit waiting to happen regardless of regulations. Your call if you want but don't be so sure even with legal advice.

Lynn McGeein · Answer

Checking local regulations is key.  For example, in my latest rental, there are actual square foot requirements, different for ages over 12, I think, and also something about proper window space and access to natural lighting to be considered a bedroom.  The smallest bedroom in that unit only meets requirements for one child, no sharing.  So in my 3 bdrm, I can have a max of 5 people, 2 in master, 2 under 12  or 1 over 12 in next room, and only 1 in smallest.   They actually have an annual rental inspection there and a permit required before you can rent.

Jeff S. · Answer

I wouldn't count on anything because it could be tested in the courts. It is not uncommon for some groups of people to share rooms and if it can be proven as discriminatory you could have problems regardless what HUD says.

I wouldn't worry about things until they come up though. They need to meet your criteria and apply before someone else that is qualified. If they are section 8 they will be given enough bedrooms.

Chris Martin · Answer

See also http://www.huduser.org/publications/pdf/measuring_overcrowding_in_hsg.pdf

Chris K. · Answer

You'll definitely want to check with a lawyer or housing authority local to your area on how you would handle this but yes there are typically lines drawn and in some cases against rules to have too many people. In my area I think it's 2 per bedroom plus one person. So If I'm renting a 2 bedroom the most people i'd allow is 5 people. But this is a big question that you definitely want to confirm with a local authority.

Denying applicant for 1 bedroom apt with kids???

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