duplex fire in the summer, is there any liability between tenants for damage?

duplex fire in the summer, is there any liability between tenants for damage?

Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes

I have an upper lower duplex in which there was a porch fire this summer. The lower tenant caused the fire in that a cigarette was the source of the fire. It was an outside covered front porch where smoking is allowed (no smoking in the property). The lower unit did not have much damage just a lottle smoke in the door, patio door and front picture window replaces. Smoke damage was the bulk of the damage inside the residence which the upper unit took the brunt of. The porch was rebuilt as well. 

It was roughly $30,000 in total damage which was a lot higher than I originally estimated but the cleaning was much more extensive than I originally thought. 

Now to my issue a couple months later. The upper tenant had renters insurance and the lower did not. The upper tenant with insurance had all her possessions professionally cleaned and she did have some issues with clothes shrinking and the insurance company was not nearly as responsive as should have been. She had a $500 deductible. She has been a great tenant for about 4 years. This property was actually my primary residence and she lived above then as well. She was a friend of my wife and still is. She is satisfied how well we have attended to the issue and got everything back together in record time and even upgraded the property for her out of our pocket in the process. 

She has inquired with me about getting her deductible reimbursed from the lower tenant. Her insurance company said this would have been reimbursed if they had had renters insurance but have not pursued collecting anything outside of that. What is your take on this. The lower tenant could have been more careful with the cigarette and used a more appropriate ashtry however I don't know if that qualifies as negligence where he would be legally liable. I am sending my insurance agent a message regarding this to get her take as well.

Thanks for reading my rambling, I like to be thorough. 

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  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    Sorry to hear about your loss.  I don't have the answer to your question... the insurance professionals are the ones that can advise you on that, so you made the right call. My only thought is to charge the tenant who caused the fire for the damages not covered by insurance and for the deductibles. Set up a payment plan, because it is likely to be too much for them to handle at once.

    Also, from here on out, require renter's insurance for all tenants and check that they keep it in force. Establish a no-smoking policy for the entire premises, this includes inside the unit and outside the unit. Unfortunately, kitchen fires, cigarette fires and candle fires are all too often occurring in residential rental property. Be proactive, provide tenants with information (we get ours from the Fire Marshall's office) about fire safety, electrical safety and disaster preparedness.

  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    11y

    Thanks for the reply. I have moved towards more strongly encouraging renters insurance. Several of my properties are lower end which makes the added expense not as palatable compared to a more middle class clientele.  I think the issue comes dow. To negligence, which I don't know if it crosses that bar. Thanks again

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    Personal opinion only---I don't think negligence is an issue.  If a person caused damages to another, whether negligent, accidental (without negligence), or intentional, they are liable for the resulting damages, period.

  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    11y

    Wayne,  thank you for your opinion. Would you go after a tenant for reimbursement of your deductible costs or advise the other tenant to go after them for their deductible expense? The insurance company chose not to as payment would most likely be long and drawn out. I had a $1,000 deductible and the other tenant had a $500 deductible. One issue I have is what if my deductible was only $500 or $5,000 or same for my other tenant if her deductible was $100 instead of $500. 

    I definately understand your point of view and hopefully will be able to find some legal precedent to shed some light on this...

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