Backed into a corner- Call tenant's bluff?

Backed into a corner- Call tenant's bluff?

Dana Point, CA · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes

Before my tenants re-signed a year lease earlier this year, they wanted to sign an even longer lease that would end in late October next year. But, that's such a bad time to find a new tenant when a year lease would have been perfectly timed to find a new tenant. 

So I rejected their offer and would accept a one year lease, which they signed. 

I thought that issue was settled until earlier this month the tenant blindsided me that they wanted to move and they had already found possible new tenants. They had already begun to advertise the place on Craigslist before informing me, and it seemed that they were ready to move out by by the end of this month according to the available move in date they posted on Craigslist. 

So, I assumed they had already found a new place already and signed a year lease so that it would end for them when they originally wanted to in late October next year.

I'm afraid that if I can't find any qualified tenant right now, then that place could easily sit empty through November and December.

I figured I'd win at small claims court, but it was an unknown variable how much rent I could claw back if it sat empty through November and December? Would a judge award me both months rent? Or, would I only get awarded one month's rent even if it sat vacant for two months and longer?

But, now, the tenants are telling me they won't be breaking the lease and moving out early on the condition that we sign a longer lease that ends next year in late October.  According to the tenants, they either need to break the lease now to sign a new one year lease somewhere else or get that longer lease that I didn't want because it'd be too difficult to move out when their year lease ended and find a new place that would agree to a six month lease.

I feel like I'm being more or less blackmailed by these tenants into agreeing to the lease they wanted all along but which I had already rejected earlier this year. When they asked to do this earlier this year, I knew I could find a new tenant at that time of the year and so I rejected it. But, by waiting till now to tell me they want to break the lease, my options are much more limited.

What would you do?

If I cave in to their demands, even though late October next year still isn't an ideal time to find a new tenant, it would still give me much more time to prepare and find a new tenant than what the tenants are threatening to do this year. And, I could avoid the drama of going to small claims court. There's also some road construction now nearby that limits the amount of drivers who might see the place for rent which won't be an issue by next year. 

But, if they can stay, then that means they haven't signed a new lease somewhere else. So, if I call their bluff, then they would need to find a new place and that will take them time to do that because I know they don't have a lot of free time to do that. And, if a landlord checks their references, there's no way I'm going to give them a positive recommendation. 

By the time they find a new place, maybe they don't move out till late November and it sits vacant only for December instead of both November and December. One of my biggest concerns with small claims court was how much rent I could claw back if it sat vacant for longer than one month. But, if it sits vacant only for a month and the judge award a month's rent, then its not as big of a hit vs the judge awarding a month's rent when it was vacant for two months.

My head says I should agree to their terms, but my heart...

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Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
12y

Don't get too flipped out about exactly when tenants leave.  You CANNOT control that, no matter what you do with leases.  Its VERY unlikely you will have a two month vacancy no matter when you have a turnover. I have found new tenants all times of the year.  Unless your market is really bad (I seriously doubt it is) then a two month vacancy is your fault, not the tenants.  A judge will want to see that you have made a diligent effort to find a new tenant.  If you do, there's no way you'll have a two month vacancy.  In our market, I suspect I could fill a Christmas day moveout before New Years day.

Personally I never do long leases at all, just month to month.  That way if I want the tenants out at any time I can just terminate the lease.  Vice versa for them.  If they need to leave, they will.  Perhaps you could offer them month to month at a slightly higher monthly rate.  

Do be careful about letting the tenants take control of the relationship.  If you've already made some decision, don't just back down because of their threats.  Instead, ask for some concession on their part.  E.G., the higher rent to convert to month to month.

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  • Retired Landlord/Author · Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Hello Sarah

    Your tenants most likely will move out no matter what you do from this point forward.  Once you denied their request you are "done" in their eyes.  If they did stay, you would be a "wimp" in their eyes and be subjected to further control.  I'm not being mean here, I've been through all this many times before.  

    Life is simple when you stick to your lease agreement.  It is a legal contract, after all.  Your tenants are obligated to stay the term of the lease.  It is nice of them to try to find another tenant for you, but the bottom line is....that Tenant must be approved by you!  They must go through the qualification criteria just like anyone else.  

    Also, everything depends on the State you are in and the Judge you have, because with landlording there aren't too many laws pertaining to all the "stuff" we have to face.  So the Judge has to rely on his own opinion, if the law doesn't prevail.  If the Judge believes that the Tenant they chose was suitable enough for you to accept, they might not award you the rest of the rent that is owed.   So, yes, you are left with "What do I do, winter is coming and the Holidays too, oh no?"

    But if you don't stick to your contract with this tenant, they may stop paying you rent anyway.  And then you've got a disgruntle tenant on your hands that can turn out to be mean, nasty, and bad news! And you can't rent it out now because they are still there, but not paying their rent!!!!

    I would take the chance and stay firm.  And advertise a Holiday special with discounted rent when you're ready to rent it out again.    I have rented places out in the winter during holidays, but it took a little longer.  But then I would temp them with some sweet goodies, like one months free rent, plus a free TV with DVD player (that I purchased for under $100) to anyone who qualifies  and I rent it to.  Spending a little money and giving a months free rent during this time of the year is better then losing several months rent until Spring.  

    Don't forget...you can write off the TV as a gift to your tenants as an expense account- Advertising Special....

    Good luck.  

    Nancy Neville, Certified QuickBooks Pro Advisor

  • Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes
    12y

    @Sarah Lewis 

    Several considerations. Just in case the decision wasn't hard enough for you. 

    If you refuse to extend, what makes you think they will pay at all? It would not be uncommon for tenants to decide that you are a jerk and that you can go &*%%^ yourself. They could probably find a homeowner friend who would act the part of a previous landlord, so they would not need your reference. They might even trash the place.

    If they "find tenants" to take over the lease, it is meaningless. New tenants must meet your standards, not theirs.

    I suspect that what amount of vacancy time is allowed varies by location to an extent, but I doubt if you would be allowed two months.

    If you give them what they want, you are allowing them to manipulate you in a very bad way. Not a good way to deal with tenants. It sets a very bad precedent for future dealings with them and other tenants. I would accept all of the negative possibilities that go with refusing to re-sign, and pursue them for every bit you can get if they break the lease. Even if it costs you more than you get. Even if it means an uncollected judgement logged against their credit is all you get.

    Get a reputation for being a hard-nosed but fair landlord, or tenants will dictate terms to you and you will lose. That is my two cents.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    12y

    Don't get too flipped out about exactly when tenants leave.  You CANNOT control that, no matter what you do with leases.  Its VERY unlikely you will have a two month vacancy no matter when you have a turnover. I have found new tenants all times of the year.  Unless your market is really bad (I seriously doubt it is) then a two month vacancy is your fault, not the tenants.  A judge will want to see that you have made a diligent effort to find a new tenant.  If you do, there's no way you'll have a two month vacancy.  In our market, I suspect I could fill a Christmas day moveout before New Years day.

    Personally I never do long leases at all, just month to month.  That way if I want the tenants out at any time I can just terminate the lease.  Vice versa for them.  If they need to leave, they will.  Perhaps you could offer them month to month at a slightly higher monthly rate.  

    Do be careful about letting the tenants take control of the relationship.  If you've already made some decision, don't just back down because of their threats.  Instead, ask for some concession on their part.  E.G., the higher rent to convert to month to month.

  • Flipper · Port Deposit, MD · Member since 2014 · 280 posts · 171 votes
    12y

    It sounds like your tenants have a very real need to stay until the end of next October, to the point where they are desperately looking for loopholes with your current lease.  Do you know why?  

    I'd be less concerned about when they wanted to move out, and more concerned that they had the audacity to advertise your place on Craigslist!!  WHO DOES THAT!

    I think Jon brings up a good win win scenario - allow them to live out the terms of the previous lease, but once it ends go to a higher rent month to month lease.   I was a tenant for many many many years and it was always pretty standard for the month to month rent price to be outrageous (sometimes almost double.)

    Don't get caught up in your fear of an October move out either.  You can find new qualified tenants in Nov / Dec 2015!  Use the extra rent money you get from their month to month stay to increase your marketing ;)

  • Real Estate Investor · Champaign, IL · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 55 votes
    12y

    I agree with jon. In addition. Outside of this incident are they good tenants for you? If they are then I would just say cave. Give them what they want, Collect rent, and start marketing the property Sept of next year. I just moved out of my one of my places on the first of this month and rented it out yesterday. Its not as easy as other times of the year but definitely doable.

    Ps: One thing I have noticed when renting in off months is that I actually get much more activity from my online marketing where as in july & aug times its almost all from the yard sign. Just some food for thought. Hope it helps! Keep us posted!

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    Tell your tenants that they are not your agents and they cannot advertise your place on Craigslist!!!  What if they advertised using discriminatory terms like "no Hispanics" or something like that?  Tenants don't know fair housing law (generally) and what you can and cannot say in a rental ad.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    You're not being blackmailed, they're negotiating.  They're negotiating from a position of strength, so it doesn't feel good to be on the other side, but they're negotiating.  It is always a good idea, in a negotiation, to know what the other sides "must haves" are.  They had a "must have" and you either didn't realize it or decided to disregard it.  And so diplomacy continues by other means.

    They apparently really have to move next October.  Doesn't matter why anymore (would have been good to know before); it appears to be a real thing.  They appear sophisticated enough to know they hold the trumps.  You don't want an October move out next year, so they can force you to accept it or deal with the October move out this year.  You're having a vacancy in October either way.

    I imagine how much rent you are awarded beyond the move out date is going to depend on local conditions.  In my area, I wouldn't even try for more than a month, because the honest truth is that if you cannot find a tenant in a month, you aren't trying.  I have been to Dana Point, it is a lovely town in a very hot real estate market, and I really doubt you'll be convincing a judge magistrate that you tried really hard but just couldn't find a tenant.

    As for the advertising for a replacement tenant, that is actually pretty common.  For one thing, if they can point to a qualified tenant who you choose not to accept, you won't be awarded any additional rent.

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I agree with @NA Jones .   It would be a good counter offer to present an addendum stating if they have timely payments and no lease violations as of the current end date, you agree to their short-term extension request for x months at an additional amount, $200/month or so.  Then simply state that you've already explained to them that you do not want vacancies at that time of year, that starting a new lease in November if you do happen to find a tenant in Nov or Dec puts you at a huge disadvantage as you'll have to sign shorter or longer-term, not one year, to correct the timing issue, creating more difficulty for you all around.  If they don't agree with paying for the privilege of changing the previously agreed-upon terms of their lease, then you can decide if it's worth it to stand firm on your current lease agreement or not.       

  • Real Estate Investor · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2013 · 584 posts · 353 votes
    12y

    I agree with @Jon Holdman and @Richard C. 

    Being afraid of vacancy puts you in a position of weakness.  If you cannot withstand some vacancy then you probably need to reconsider being in this game.  It's a fact of life.

    My experience has been once the tenants know you are not afraid of vacancy then they will fall in line much better.  We have terminated month to month leases on tenants that were paying in full on time because they were not good tenants for other reasons (drugs, etc).  Everyone else in the building learned that we can handle some vacancy and we aren't messing around.  We now are always negotiating with tenants from a position of strength.

    Good luck.

  • Real Estate Investor · Milford, PA · Member since 2014 · 395 posts · 299 votes
    12y

    Always act in a FIRM fair compassionate manner.  

    Seems to me your tenant has a very real need.  The first thing I would do is sit down face to face and have a very real conversation.  Why is it so important for them to be out next October. You may come to find out that their reason is legitimate.  

    You have two courses in dealing with this. You can sit back and do nothing.  If and when they break the lease take the appropriate actions.  That is why the lease is in place.  In my opinion this is by far not the best action to take.

    You can be pro-active. You can hash out an agreement similar to what Jon suggested.  We have a lease already that we will abide by.  Then we move to a monthly lease at a slightly higher rate or what the hell the same rate.  Right now we are looking for a win win.

    After you hash that out you should make it clear that they should not be advertising YOUR place, regardless of their good intentions in trying to help you out.

    Though not ideal I wouldn't be to concerned with October.  You will be able to fill your unit. And you will have plenty of time to devise your marketing.  Always have a reserve fund. 

    Please also remember that any tenant they may find MUST be approved through your vetting process.

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Richard C.:

    You're not being blackmailed, they're negotiating.  They're negotiating from a position of strength, so it doesn't feel good to be on the other side, but they're negotiating.  It is always a good idea, in a negotiation, to know what the other sides "must haves" are.  They had a "must have" and you either didn't realize it or decided to disregard it.  And so diplomacy continues by other means.

    They are most certainly being blackmailed.  It was negotiation until they agreed to lease terms and signed what is supposed to be a legally binding agreement.

    Now several months into the lease they are saying they will now violate that legal agreement because it in fact didn't suit their needs from the outset.  They have no standing to do that in the contract and are only doing it because they know that there is generally little consequence to a tenant breaking a lease.

    I have to admit I'm surprised you would take this stance.  I would have thought you would have been one to respect a contract.  Given you are someone that comes down hard on people all the time in wholesaling discussions about putting in BS clauses to get out of contracts (at least there IS a clause) or negotiating more with the seller when they can't sell it for the agreed price I'd think that would translate into other contracts as well.

    Of course the common sense approach is that, as these crappy tenants realize, there isn't much that can be done if they move.  Generally at best the 1 month of rent and unless you are holding that as a last month rent or security deposit it isn't going to be easy to even collect that.  But the reality is different than acting like these people are NOT knowingly violating their contract, trying to blackmail their landlord and didn't negotiate in good faith originally. 

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Hey, I owned 2000 shares of GTAT stock!  Let me tell you about the party with the trump cards renegotiating a prior agreement!  It sucks.

    My post was not a moral commentary, it was practical advice.  I wouldn't do what they did.

    The fact is that the tenants hold the trumps here.  I am actually very consistent in suggesting that people not let emotions, chest-thumping, and gamesmanship get in the way of business.  And the business reality here is that the OP would have been better off learning why October was important to the tenants.

    The important takeaway from this situation is that landlords don't actually get to dictate terms, much as they might think they do.  No lease is going to prevent people who need to move from moving.

  • Specialist · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 817 votes
    12y

    Well, it seems to me that we need to step back, and ask what your lease says about the tenant breaking it?  Hopefully you charged the legal full amount of Security that California allows: 2 Full Months!  If they break the lease you are allowed to keep it for any unpaid rents!  

    I'd also love to hear what @Elizabeth C has to say about it.

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Richard C.:

    Hey, I owned 2000 shares of GTAT stock!  Let me tell you about the party with the trump cards renegotiating a prior agreement!  It sucks.

    My post was not a moral commentary, it was practical advice.  I wouldn't do what they did.

    The fact is that the tenants hold the trumps here.  I am actually very consistent in suggesting that people not let emotions, chest-thumping, and gamesmanship get in the way of business.  And the business reality here is that the OP would have been better off learning why October was important to the tenants.

    The important takeaway from this situation is that landlords don't actually get to dictate terms, much as they might think they do.  No lease is going to prevent people who need to move from moving.

    Totally agree, as I said in my last post, that the practical view is that a lease does very little to help the landlord in this situation.  I was in fact only commenting on the moral commentary part where you said:

    "You're not being blackmailed, they're negotiating. They're negotiating from a position of strength, so it doesn't feel good to be on the other side, but they're negotiating."

    That sounds like you condon what they are doing not just accepting of the reality.  Seems like I misinterpreted your meaning, which can happen easily in these kinds of online discussions.  

    Again I completely agree with the practical advice given, was just surprised by quoted text.

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Troy thanks!

    What does your lease say? Personally you need to get hold of the situation! If you lease doesn't have a recent clause or a break lease. They are on hold for the rent till "you" fill the house with a reputable candidate. You can start advertising the house till you get there official notice.

    My lease has a 2 month break lease clause and a 2 month notice. This is approx idea what I would write based on the lease

    Dear x

    I am sorry to hear that you are interested in terminating the lease but we wish you the best on your adventures. To make this as smooth as possible.  I have discussed the process found for the buy out clause in your  lease.

    As discussed at time of renewal we will not be signing an Oct lease. If you wish to break your lease per the break lease clause you will have to pervide 2 months notice and a two months fee. Your two months notice does not start until the fee has been provided. Per the lease you are not allowed to sublease. Therefore please discontinue showering the house and advertising it. Once we receive the break lease fee and a move out date has been provided, we will begin showing the house. As the responsibility is on us as a landlord. Please note that is a move out date of less than 60 days is provided we will charge the remained of the time with the break lease fee.

    Again we are sorry to see you the leave but wish you the best. Please advise us how you wish to proceed. Please note that any termination other than laid out by the break lease will result in us enforcing the hole lease to the fullest extent of the law!

    Sincerely

    Just a quick gist

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I still wouldn't call it blackmail.  It is a bit of a strong-arm tactic, to be sure.  But it was, in a sense, predictable.  An October move was clearly important to the tenants.  

    In a way, the tenants were better to the OP than I might have expected.  I think the more common tenant tactic here would be to complete their current lease (through, say, June), sign another through June 2016, and then break THAT lease when they needed to move in October 2015.

    Giving essentially a year of notice of an issue, and then actively trying to find a replacement tenant, doesn't really strike me as egregious behavior, given their other possible tactics.  

  • Real Estate Investor · Flower Mound, TX · Member since 2014 · 59 posts · 31 votes
    12y

    "Give them what they want, Collect rent, and start marketing the property Sept of next year."

    I agree with this.  The best tenant (sometimes - ha) is the one you already have.  You have a year to 1. collect rent and 2 find another tenant.  Unless you already have somebody ready to step in tomorrow, the best course of action is accommodation.

    *It's entirely possible that whatever obligation they have next year falls out and they end of staying longer.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Elizabeth Colegrove:

    Troy thanks!

    What does your lease say? Personally you need to get hold of the situation! If you lease doesn't have a recent clause or a break lease. They are on hold for the rent till "you" fill the house with a reputable candidate. You can start advertising the house till you get there official notice.

    My lease has a 2 month break lease clause and a 2 month notice. This is approx idea what I would write based on the lease

    Dear x

    I am sorry to hear that you are interested in terminating the lease but we wish you the best on your adventures. To make this as smooth as possible.  I have discussed the process found for the buy out clause in your  lease.

    As discussed at time of renewal we will not be signing an Oct lease. If you wish to break your lease per the break lease clause you will have to pervide 2 months notice and a two months fee. Your two months notice does not start until the fee has been provided. Per the lease you are not allowed to sublease. Therefore please discontinue showering the house and advertising it. Once we receive the break lease fee and a move out date has been provided, we will begin showing the house. As the responsibility is on us as a landlord. Please note that is a move out date of less than 60 days is provided we will charge the remained of the time with the break lease fee.

    Again we are sorry to see you the leave but wish you the best. Please advise us how you wish to proceed. Please note that any termination other than laid out by the break lease will result in us enforcing the hole lease to the fullest extent of the law!

    Sincerely

    Just a quick gist

     That's a great idea in places where it is legal.  I am 99% sure that here, I cannot sidestep my statutory obligation (to mitigate loss of rent by re-renting expeditiously) with lease language, but I am going to check.

    I probably wouldn't actually make them pay, just use the fact I have a right to to encourage a smooth transition.

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I would definitely check as I have noticed it is a very common practice. My understanding is your allowed to provide a break lease clause. If you don't, than "normal" language comes into play. If you have a minute call up the local apartment complexes and ask them. I know most I have been to has some thing like this. If they dot they try to tell the tenant they can't break the lease which is false.

  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    I will just let them sign the lease until next oct. You have 11 months to find the next tenant for oct 2015! And you save one turnover cost. Turnover cost normally about 1-2 months. 

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Elizabeth Colegrove:

    I would definitely check as I have noticed it is a very common practice. My understanding is your allowed to provide a break lease clause. If you don't, than "normal" language comes into play. If you have a minute call up the local apartment complexes and ask them. I know most I have been to has some thing like this. If they dot they try to tell the tenant they can't break the lease which is false.

     Well I checked into it.  My lawyer said (off the top of his head, phone call) that such a clause would not in fact get me out of my statutory obligation to mitigate damages.  So I couldn't really collect on it.

    It is an interesting idea, though.  And just reinforces how much about real estate is local.  I see people here all the time saying that when a lease ends and a client goes month-to-month, you can simply give them 30 days notice and end their tenancy.  Not here; I would have to show cause.

    I would also encourage people to use some method other than just checking what large complexes are doing, to determine what is legal.  National companies often have broad policies that may not actually comply with local laws.  Best Buy actually got in quite a bit of trouble in NH because their loss-mitigation policies (stopping people, demanding receipts) actually went well beyond New Hampshire's law on Shopkeeper Privilege.  So just because a company is big doesn't mean they're legal,and they can probably better afford the lawyers they'll need if someone calls them on it.  Lawyers are a necessary expense, and once you have been doing business with one for a while, not always even an expense (I won't be billed for that phone call.)

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Richard totally agree! I work close in hand with a lawyer to stay our of trouble. 

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Richard C.:

    Hey, I owned 2000 shares of GTAT stock!  Let me tell you about the party with the trump cards renegotiating a prior agreement!  It sucks.

    Ouch, and you can't even get a small load of sapphire to put into the aquarium.

  • Dana Point, CA · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @NA Jones:

    It sounds like your tenants have a very real need to stay until the end of next October, to the point where they are desperately looking for loopholes with your current lease.  Do you know why?  


    I found out this month that the tenants want to move out next October because one of the tenants is a grad student and their program will end in late October next year. They're 'negotiating' to have the lease end on a specific date in October, let's say the 26th, because that's when that program will be finished.

    But, even if I had known their reason for wanting to have a longer lease when they first broached this topic, I still think I would have rejected that offer. 

    To me, even if I was in their situation, I wouldn't have thought having the lease end on a exact date next October would be a must-have when they had other options. They didn't have to renew and could have found another place to rent that would accept those lease terms. Or, they could have honored their current lease and moved out next year to another rental on a month-to-month lease until their school program was completed.

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 64 posts · 18 votes
    12y

    @Sarah Lewis

    I would approach them with a new lease agreement that ends when they want it to, but with those extra months at an increased amount of rent, and you simply explain it to them that it is much harder to rent out the property that time of year. So you need to charge them more for those extra months to help cover your potential losses. You give them what they want and you get an extra amount of security to make it worth your risk.

    You need to approach it as you are doing them a favor and that you didn't not realize the timing predicament they were in with the Grad Program. But you also need to re-establish the King of the Hill in Landlord Tenant relationship. You do that by admonishing them for listing your property on craigslist, and make it a point that a lesser landlord would have moved to evict them or even sued them for misrepresentation and or trying to sublet based on the language in they used in the listing, mention the fair housing laws,  etc...

    Remember you you are dealing with Grad Students, which often means they are just dumb enough to think they are the smartest person in the room.  Hence they went behind your back to try and solve your eventual problem for you before you even knew about it. 

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