Landlord Rights Are Being Stripped Away—Why the Latest Examples of Squatting Should C

Landlord Rights Are Being Stripped Away—Why the Latest Examples of Squatting Should C

Andrew SyriosPro Member
Moderator
Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes

Landlord Rights Are Being Stripped Away—Why the Latest Examples of Squatting Should Concern You

The media tends to side with tenants and take a negative view of landlords overall. One notable exception was an episode of HBO’s , where the hapless Jared has tried for over a year to evict a nonpaying “professional tenant” who is currently subleasing Jared’s unit through Airbnb because California’s landlord/tenant laws are so biased in favor of the tenant that an eviction can take close to an eternity.

At the same time, Erlich (who rents the rooms in his home to Jared and the other characters trying to build the fictional tech company Pied Piper) is demanding one of his tenants and soon-to-be-supervillain Jian Yang leave his house (video contains NSFW language) and unfortunately lets Jared’s situation slip. This inspires Jian Yang to decide that instead of leaving, as Erlich requested, he would instead stay and simply stop paying rent.

While that episode was quite amusing, some municipalities seem to be trying to transcend parody into something beyond satire. New York, for example, just arrested a woman for changing the locks on a squatter in the $1 million home she inherited.

According to a New York Post story about the incident:

“[Adele] Andaloro claims the ordeal erupted when she started the process of trying to sell the home last month but realized squatters had moved in—and brazenly replaced the entire front door and locks.

“She said she got fed up and went to her family’s home on 160th Street—with the local TV outlet in tow—on Feb. 29 and called a locksmith to change the locks for her.”

Understandable, but not a wise course of action. The two got into a heated argument, and the police were eventually called. As the New York Post article notes, “Under the law, it is illegal for the homeowner to change the locks, turn off the utilities, or remove the belongings of the ‘tenants’ from the property.” The word “tenant” is an extraordinarily generous euphemism in this case.

What complicates matters more is that in New York City, someone can claim “squatters rights” after being in a home for just 30 days. But “’[b]y the time someone does their investigation, their work, and their job, it will be over 30 days and this man will still be in my home,’ Andaloro said.” So, that left Andaloro between a rock and a hard place:

Continued: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/landlord-rights-are-being...

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

Florida just passed a bill that puts power back in the hands of property owners. I suspect at least 50% of the states will follow suit.

https://www.flgov.com/2024/03/27/governor-desantis-signs-leg...

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

    Florida just passed a bill that puts power back in the hands of property owners. I suspect at least 50% of the states will follow suit.

    https://www.flgov.com/2024/03/27/governor-desantis-signs-leg...

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    This will be very much a red state versus blue state ordeal.

    And this will definitely be something all us property owners will vet for when we invest in real estate. Tenant rights versus landlord rights is always something a diligent investor has in mind when in investing.

    I love California, and I know lots here do too, but I just won't invest there when I can't take full control of my property. I'll live there, as a second home. But as a business, I cannot occupy it there. I'll stick to my sunbelt run.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y

    Yes, this whole situation is alarming and I suspect it will get much worse before it ever gets better (if ever). I can also see some bad things happening between these squatters and a landlord who has just had enough.

    Random thoughts:

    This will certainly affect those of us in the RE industry. A main target of these thieves/squatters are houses being listed and sitting vacant. I've heard from a LEO friend that the bad guys are using Zillow, Red Fin, Trulia, etc to find houses to scope out.

    The videos urging people to squat and how to do it have got to be illegal, right? The social media platforms take down videos for far less.... 

    I wonder if this will ever get to the SCOTUS as a discussion on Property Rights.

    This will also certainly hasten the exodus from Blue > Red states, changing the political landscape by those states losing both House seats and electoral college votes.......

  • Rental Property Investor · Monroe, WA · Member since 2018 · 177 posts · 98 votes
    2y

    Isn't this simply crazy? This recent news story from my neck of the woods!

    https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/i-keep-my-kids-inside-fife-...

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    2y

    In Canada the prime minister made some announcement about trying to get a federal lease that all the provinces need to use as well as posting the previous rent so tenants can negotiate the rent prices.  Of course it ignores the fact that several provinces have rent caps, so landlords can only increase rent when a tenant leaves and we have a turnover.

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
    Quote from @Andrew Syrios:

    Florida just passed a bill that puts power back in the hands of property owners. I suspect at least 50% of the states will follow suit.

    https://www.flgov.com/2024/03/27/governor-desantis-signs-leg...


     Well it's nice to see some movement in the opposite direction. Red state and blue states seem to be drifting apart rapidly on property rights. 

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tracy Minick:

    Isn't this simply crazy? This recent news story from my neck of the woods!

    https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/i-keep-my-kids-inside-fife-...


     Geez, that's unbelievable! 

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Yes, this whole situation is alarming and I suspect it will get much worse before it ever gets better (if ever). I can also see some bad things happening between these squatters and a landlord who has just had enough.

    Random thoughts:

    This will certainly affect those of us in the RE industry. A main target of these thieves/squatters are houses being listed and sitting vacant. I've heard from a LEO friend that the bad guys are using Zillow, Red Fin, Trulia, etc to find houses to scope out.

    The videos urging people to squat and how to do it have got to be illegal, right? The social media platforms take down videos for far less.... 

    I wonder if this will ever get to the SCOTUS as a discussion on Property Rights.

    This will also certainly hasten the exodus from Blue > Red states, changing the political landscape by those states losing both House seats and electoral college votes.......


     Oh great, so we got a social media trend of pushing people to squat in other's homes? What a joke...

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    In Canada the prime minister made some announcement about trying to get a federal lease that all the provinces need to use as well as posting the previous rent so tenants can negotiate the rent prices.  Of course it ignores the fact that several provinces have rent caps, so landlords can only increase rent when a tenant leaves and we have a turnover.


     I try not to get too political in these forums, but Trudeau is, well he's something ain't he...

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @V.G Jason:

    This will be very much a red state versus blue state ordeal.

    And this will definitely be something all us property owners will vet for when we invest in real estate. Tenant rights versus landlord rights is always something a diligent investor has in mind when in investing.

    I love California, and I know lots here do too, but I just won't invest there when I can't take full control of my property. I'll live there, as a second home. But as a business, I cannot occupy it there. I'll stick to my sunbelt run.


     That's definitely true. There's a massive gulf growing between how red states and blue states look a property rights. This is going to be a bigger and bigger issue for real estate investors in the near future. 

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    This is why when I list a property for rent , I dont post an address .  And I am in contact with the neighbors . I tell them its vacant and I tell them to call if they see someone trying to move in . 

    It will come to the point that some people will have to pay for a security patrol to visit the properties daily to avoid this . 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    2y

    I'd move in, with a pit bull.  If they can squat in my home, so can I.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Matthew Paul:

    It will come to the point that some people will have to pay for a security patrol to visit the properties daily to avoid this . 

    Even that may not be sufficient. A smart squatter will just figure out the drive-by schedule and move in afterwards....

    It will soon come to the point where we can never leave a house sitting vacant.....

    Did y'all ever think we'd even be having this conversation....?
  • Member since 2023 · 45 posts · 23 votes
    2y

    This has become a very common issue globally I see. Georgia has just passed a new bill a week ago:
    https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/georgia-squatters...

  • Member since 2024 · 37 posts · 52 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Yes, this whole situation is alarming and I suspect it will get much worse before it ever gets better (if ever). I can also see some bad things happening between these squatters and a landlord who has just had enough.

    Random thoughts:

    This will certainly affect those of us in the RE industry. A main target of these thieves/squatters are houses being listed and sitting vacant. I've heard from a LEO friend that the bad guys are using Zillow, Red Fin, Trulia, etc to find houses to scope out.

    The videos urging people to squat and how to do it have got to be illegal, right? The social media platforms take down videos for far less.... 

    I wonder if this will ever get to the SCOTUS as a discussion on Property Rights.

    This will also certainly hasten the exodus from Blue > Red states, changing the political landscape by those states losing both House seats and electoral college votes.......


     The thing I don't understand about this so-called "exodus" from blue states to red states is why are property prices in blue states rising at faster and faster rates. There are 12000 homes in my little area of Southern California and currently 8 are for sale and likely will be pending within a week. As an investor of course you don't like this but there are more tenants than landlords and it's very likely the tenant rights issue is a vote-getter. The problem with housing in the USA continues to be the supply more than any other single issue.

  • Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 292 posts · 233 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Yes, this whole situation is alarming and I suspect it will get much worse before it ever gets better (if ever). I can also see some bad things happening between these squatters and a landlord who has just had enough.

    Random thoughts:

    This will certainly affect those of us in the RE industry. A main target of these thieves/squatters are houses being listed and sitting vacant. I've heard from a LEO friend that the bad guys are using Zillow, Red Fin, Trulia, etc to find houses to scope out.

    The videos urging people to squat and how to do it have got to be illegal, right? The social media platforms take down videos for far less.... 

    I wonder if this will ever get to the SCOTUS as a discussion on Property Rights.

    This will also certainly hasten the exodus from Blue > Red states, changing the political landscape by those states losing both House seats and electoral college votes.......


     Well said information, and from my experiences in Texas, there is an understanding that Tenants absolutely have rights, but it's the OWNER'S property first and foremost.  The majority of contracts are written up that way to be owner friendly, as long as both parties do what's agreed upon. 

    It's frustrating to think what's allowed in many urban areas/ states that give just a slap on the wrist to violators of other ppl's assets.  The hand holding and coddling isn't benefiting anyone long term. 

    Let's see how bad things get with Blue states in the future if people who actually own businesses, work for a living, etc.  can handle propping up the growing "leeches" in many of these areas.  There will be a breaking point...
     

  • Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 292 posts · 233 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mark Cotter:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Yes, this whole situation is alarming and I suspect it will get much worse before it ever gets better (if ever). I can also see some bad things happening between these squatters and a landlord who has just had enough.

    Random thoughts:

    This will certainly affect those of us in the RE industry. A main target of these thieves/squatters are houses being listed and sitting vacant. I've heard from a LEO friend that the bad guys are using Zillow, Red Fin, Trulia, etc to find houses to scope out.

    The videos urging people to squat and how to do it have got to be illegal, right? The social media platforms take down videos for far less.... 

    I wonder if this will ever get to the SCOTUS as a discussion on Property Rights.

    This will also certainly hasten the exodus from Blue > Red states, changing the political landscape by those states losing both House seats and electoral college votes.......


     The thing I don't understand about this so-called "exodus" from blue states to red states is why are property prices in blue states rising at faster and faster rates. There are 12000 homes in my little area of Southern California and currently 8 are for sale and likely will be pending within a week. As an investor of course you don't like this but there are more tenants than landlords and it's very likely the tenant rights issue is a vote-getter. The problem with housing in the USA continues to be the supply more than any other single issue.


     California Coast,  Destin in Florida,  ski towns in Colorado, etc.   

    They are stunning places, and with so much money around ( especially from Other countries w/ how popular CA is )  I guess there's enough ppl willing to pay outrageous prices to deal with insane policies and other madness,  for the incredible weather/ views.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mark Cotter:

    The exodus is not 'so-called', it's quite real and the numbers back up the facts. Last I heard, it was 1000 people per week (NET) removing themselves from Cali. I also recall hearing that the main purchasers of homes there now are from out of the country, and moving from north to south CA. Not sure if that's still true or not.

    I have a good friend that's moving to AZ from CA, he expects his house to go within a week for cash. Buyers will be Caldeans and are buying as many houses as they can.

  • Member since 2024 · 37 posts · 52 votes
    2y
    Quote from @James De Stefano:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    Yes, this whole situation is alarming and I suspect it will get much worse before it ever gets better (if ever). I can also see some bad things happening between these squatters and a landlord who has just had enough.

    Random thoughts:

    This will certainly affect those of us in the RE industry. A main target of these thieves/squatters are houses being listed and sitting vacant. I've heard from a LEO friend that the bad guys are using Zillow, Red Fin, Trulia, etc to find houses to scope out.

    The videos urging people to squat and how to do it have got to be illegal, right? The social media platforms take down videos for far less.... 

    I wonder if this will ever get to the SCOTUS as a discussion on Property Rights.

    This will also certainly hasten the exodus from Blue > Red states, changing the political landscape by those states losing both House seats and electoral college votes.......


     Well said information, and from my experiences in Texas, there is an understanding that Tenants absolutely have rights, but it's the OWNER'S property first and foremost.  The majority of contracts are written up that way to be owner friendly, as long as both parties do what's agreed upon. 

    It's frustrating to think what's allowed in many urban areas/ states that give just a slap on the wrist to violators of other ppl's assets.  The hand holding and coddling isn't benefiting anyone long term. 

    Let's see how bad things get with Blue states in the future if people who actually own businesses, work for a living, etc.  can handle propping up the growing "leeches" in many of these areas.  There will be a breaking point...
     


     What are referring to when you say "It's frustrating to think what's allowed"? Who are these "growing leeches" that you refer to? 

  • Member since 2024 · 37 posts · 52 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Mark Cotter:

    The exodus is not 'so-called', it's quite real and the numbers back up the facts. Last I heard, it was 1000 people per week (NET) removing themselves from Cali. I also recall hearing that the main purchasers of homes there now are from out of the country, and moving from north to south CA. Not sure if that's still true or not.

    I have a good friend that's moving to AZ from CA, he expects his house to go within a week for cash. Buyers will be Caldeans and are buying as many houses as they can.

    I am not sure I would consider 1k a week out of a population of 40 million an exodus. Id say the majority of people who move are retired and looking for more affordability. Remember all the media regarding Tesla moving from Cali to Texas? How many people know that they had to pack up the engineering department and come back to Cali because of the poor talent pool in Texas? 

    I have noticed that you post a lot of "a friend told me" type facts and I did read an article about foreign investment into the US housing sector and Southern California was a popular destination because it was seen as a better investment. I'm old enough to remember when foreign investment was considered a good thing. The issue with the stats was that a lot of times an all-cash offer was considered a sale to a foreign investor so the stats were not great. I very much doubt that the "main purchasers" have ever been from out of the country. I am going to assume that what you mean by "main purchasers" is the majority.

    Let me finish by saying that I am not a political person, I'm one of the diminishing numbers who believe no politician deserves a flag or a yard sign. We made a terrible error when we started calling them leaders and stopped calling them representatives. 


  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mark Cotter:

    I have noticed that you post a lot of "a friend told me" type facts and I did read an article about foreign investment into the US housing sector and Southern California was a popular destination because it was seen as a better investment. I'm old enough to remember when foreign investment was considered a good thing. The issue with the stats was that a lot of times an all-cash offer was considered a sale to a foreign investor so the stats were not great. I very much doubt that the "main purchasers" have ever been from out of the country. I am going to assume that what you mean by "main purchasers" is the majority.

    Let me finish by saying that I am not a political person, I'm one of the diminishing numbers who believe no politician deserves a flag or a yard sign. We made a terrible error when we started calling them leaders and stopped calling them representatives. 


    Well, I can sure agree with you on your last point :-)

    Exodus is a big word for sure, but 1000 per week with no end in sight is not great news for a political regime. And one of the main drivers is politics. Among other metrics we can see the pool of registered Rs continue to drop...it's now at 24% which means Cali is a one-party-rule state.

    Completely anecdotal, but I don't know anyone that knows anyone that knows anyone who left solely due to 'affordability'.


  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Mark Cotter:

    The exodus is not 'so-called', it's quite real and the numbers back up the facts. Last I heard, it was 1000 people per week (NET) removing themselves from Cali. I also recall hearing that the main purchasers of homes there now are from out of the country, and moving from north to south CA. Not sure if that's still true or not.

    I have a good friend that's moving to AZ from CA, he expects his house to go within a week for cash. Buyers will be Caldeans and are buying as many houses as they can.


     I read an article last year . It was the movement of U Haul trucks and trailers . They were leaving California . And were renting at a premium  leaving California . And they were giving steep discounts if you were going to California one way 

  • Member since 2024 · 37 posts · 52 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Mark Cotter:

    I have noticed that you post a lot of "a friend told me" type facts and I did read an article about foreign investment into the US housing sector and Southern California was a popular destination because it was seen as a better investment. I'm old enough to remember when foreign investment was considered a good thing. The issue with the stats was that a lot of times an all-cash offer was considered a sale to a foreign investor so the stats were not great. I very much doubt that the "main purchasers" have ever been from out of the country. I am going to assume that what you mean by "main purchasers" is the majority.

    Let me finish by saying that I am not a political person, I'm one of the diminishing numbers who believe no politician deserves a flag or a yard sign. We made a terrible error when we started calling them leaders and stopped calling them representatives. 


    Well, I can sure agree with you on your last point :-)

    Exodus is a big word for sure, but 1000 per week with no end in sight is not great news for a political regime. And one of the main drivers is politics. Among other metrics we can see the pool of registered Rs continue to drop...it's now at 24% which means Cali is a one-party-rule state.

    Completely anecdotal, but I don't know anyone that knows anyone that knows anyone who left solely due to 'affordability'.


    The majority of people I know were old Republicans who voted for Bush, McCain, and Romney. Most of them have left the party. My guess is that issues like women's health have driven coastal/moderate Republicans away. The only reason Republicans have any chance in federal presidential elections is college votes because they haven't won the popular vote since 2004 and only twice in 40 years. People on here are overreacting to this issue, with over 2 million rental homes in California I'm going to go out on a limb and say the ones that have issues with tenants, generally, are the poorer managed ones. 

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Matthew Paul:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Mark Cotter:

    The exodus is not 'so-called', it's quite real and the numbers back up the facts. Last I heard, it was 1000 people per week (NET) removing themselves from Cali. I also recall hearing that the main purchasers of homes there now are from out of the country, and moving from north to south CA. Not sure if that's still true or not.

    I have a good friend that's moving to AZ from CA, he expects his house to go within a week for cash. Buyers will be Caldeans and are buying as many houses as they can.


     I read an article last year . It was the movement of U Haul trucks and trailers . They were leaving California . And were renting at a premium  leaving California . And they were giving steep discounts if you were going to California one way 


    Funny, but it's actually one way they gauge the migration between states.

    If they didn't count the homeless population and illegal immigrants moving in, the 1000 per day would be even larger....

  • Member since 2024 · 37 posts · 52 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Matthew Paul:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Mark Cotter:

    The exodus is not 'so-called', it's quite real and the numbers back up the facts. Last I heard, it was 1000 people per week (NET) removing themselves from Cali. I also recall hearing that the main purchasers of homes there now are from out of the country, and moving from north to south CA. Not sure if that's still true or not.

    I have a good friend that's moving to AZ from CA, he expects his house to go within a week for cash. Buyers will be Caldeans and are buying as many houses as they can.


     I read an article last year . It was the movement of U Haul trucks and trailers . They were leaving California . And were renting at a premium  leaving California . And they were giving steep discounts if you were going to California one way 


    Funny, but it's actually one way they gauge the migration between states.

    If they didn't count the homeless population and illegal immigrants moving in, the 1000 per day would be even larger....


     Oh, so it's 1k a day now, is it? This is when partisan opinions start to cloud common sense. 

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