Security Deposit Refund dispute - Tenant running a dog Kennel

San Diego, California
General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Security Deposit Refund dispute - Tenant running a dog Kennel

Prateek Bansal
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 0 votes

Hi,

My tenant moved out a few weeks back and  recently I found out from the neighbors and online posting that they were running a dog kennel at my place. My rental agreement mentioned they were allowed to have only 1 pet and had following clauses that were in clear violation:

1. Tenant is not allowed to have any other pets on the Premises other than those designated above, including any pets
that are “just visiting.”
10.Tenant is responsible for and will be charged for any damage to the Premises caused by their pet(s), whether listed
above or “just visiting.” Damages include, but are not limited to, damages to floors, carpets, drapes, screens,
landscaping, fencing, including odors due to the presence of pets.

I have not taken any specific action on the above front but the dispute has come down to security deposit refund. I have to professionally clean the house, clean the carpets, repair the backyard screen doors, and perform the pet treatment to re-rent the house. However, the tenant dispute that they cleaned the house and left it at the same state during the move-in time and threatening to take this matter to court. I am not even charging for may of the other damage/repair works caused to carpet staining, backyard, landscaping that was a direct result of running a dog kennel. I do have property management representation who is currently out of country on vacation. They have been helpful but I wanted to get additional feedback from the experts here on the best steps forward here. Thanks in advance

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Ke Nan Wang:

I'm not 100% familiar with how Florida operates. Aren't these claims settled in Small Claims court? If so, it shouldn't cost the Landlord anything to show up and defend themselves.

If everything is properly documented, the risk of a Tenant suing is very small, probably 1% or less. Then the risk of losing in court is also extremely small.

Tenants threaten to sue me all the time. In 13 years with nearly 400 rentals under management, I have never been sued once. Not once. That's because every time they threaten it, I show them picture/video evidence and make it clear I am prepared to defend myself. Tenants rarely have any evidence to support their case.

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  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    You have a PM... let them do their job. How long are they gone and when was the move out? You have time....

    How is your documentation on move in vs move out? Got pictures? Forms filled out by tenant and accepted by you? Documentation is key toy your defense

    What are you charging for?

    What are you not charging for?

    A LOT of tenants threaten court.... few go through with it. If you have proper documentation and justified reasonable cost charged, with receipts, then you win if it gets that far. 

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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    3y

    If your PM is out of the country on vacation, they should have someone doing their job-that is what you pay them for.

    1Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Prateek Bansal:

    "I am not even charging for may of the other damage/repair works caused to carpet staining, backyard, landscaping that was a direct result of running a dog kennel."

    Why? Charge them for any cleaning/repairs outside of ordinary wear-and-tear. It doesn't matter if the damage was caused by a 5-year-old kid, an authorized pet, or 12 unauthorized dogs. 

    If there's money left over, and I doubt there would be, then you can decide if you are going to charge them for violating your lease by running a kennel. If your lease doesn't say anything about a fine for unauthorized animals, then I wouldn't bother with it. 

    In the future, your lease should include a penalty for unauthorized animals. And you need to have a talk with your manager and find out why they aren't inspecting the property to prevent these issues.

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  • Ke Nan Wang
    Developer · St. Augustine, FL · Member since 2018 · 311 posts · 384 votes
    3y

    This is not an answer to this post but it's somewhat related to security deposit dispute. 

    @Nathan Gesner I'm interested to hear your insight on this. In Florida where we operate, as soon as the Tenant disagree with the Landlord's claim, the dispute needs to settle in court. And 99% of the time, it's at the Landlord's loss because it cost time and money to fight in court, if the landlord losses the case, it's more money. If the landlord wins, good luck on collecting on attorney's fee, court cost, assuming if the security deposit is not all gone. 

    Doing this at my scale, I found it's always cheaper and easier to settle. Most of the time, most Tenant will. But once awhile, I came across a Tenant who thinks they are smarter than attorneys and they are willing to go to court for something less than $1000. In this case, do you call their bluff and be willing to go to court? Or just settle with them, make them happy and move on? Our lease is pretty iron clad and always have everything spelled out, but sometimes those Tenants think they know the law better and they would say the "law" will trump our lease...

    I always deduct according to the lease. And if Tenant disagrees, I'll show them the lease and evidences. That will take care of 99% of them. However, when I meet that 1%, every time I settle and just let them go. It's not worth it to me. What are your thoughts on this? 

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Ke Nan Wang:

    I'm not 100% familiar with how Florida operates. Aren't these claims settled in Small Claims court? If so, it shouldn't cost the Landlord anything to show up and defend themselves.

    If everything is properly documented, the risk of a Tenant suing is very small, probably 1% or less. Then the risk of losing in court is also extremely small.

    Tenants threaten to sue me all the time. In 13 years with nearly 400 rentals under management, I have never been sued once. Not once. That's because every time they threaten it, I show them picture/video evidence and make it clear I am prepared to defend myself. Tenants rarely have any evidence to support their case.

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  • Ke Nan Wang
    Developer · St. Augustine, FL · Member since 2018 · 311 posts · 384 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
    Quote from @Ke Nan Wang:

    I'm not 100% familiar with how Florida operates. Aren't these claims settled in Small Claims court? If so, it shouldn't cost the Landlord anything to show up and defend themselves.

    If everything is properly documented, the risk of a Tenant suing is very small, probably 1% or less. Then the risk of losing in court is also extremely small.

    Tenants threaten to sue me all the time. In 13 years with nearly 400 rentals under management, I have never been sued once. Not once. That's because every time they threaten it, I show them picture/video evidence and make it clear I am prepared to defend myself. Tenants rarely have any evidence to support their case.

    Appreciate the helpful insight. That makes sense. 

    The thing about Florida is that the security deposit is placed in a separate account and no one can touch. At the end of a lease after tenants move out, the landlord needs to send a notification to the Tenant with the intention to deduct from security. If the tenant disagree and object to the deduction, the only way to resolve it is to settle this in court. 

    Of course, I'd assume the Tenant actually wants the money back so they will initiate the suit. But if they don't initiate, then no one can touch the money so if the Landlord wants to claim the security deposit to offset repair cost, the Landlord needs to file suit to make the claim...

    In the past the law used to be where the Tenant has to take the Landlord to small claim, so that makes it almost always not worth it for a few hundred bucks. But now the law has changed that if there is no agreement outside of the court, then the next move is to settle inside the courtroom. A small change in the Tenant's favor. And the law made it explicit that the Landlord has to put the language in the Intent to Deduct from Security Notification so the Tenants will always know their rights. 

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  • Alecia LovelessPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Prateek Bansal Hind sight is 20/20 but this is one reason to do unexpected visits and drive bys of your properties or have the property management team conduct them periodically. I have the luxury of being local to all of my properties currently and take the time to drive by them all once a week. I also do regular maintenance whether it’s furnace cleaning, filter replacement, or smoke detector inspections which take about 5 minutes to get a good look at the inside of my units a couple times a year as well.

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  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    does your lease address running a commercial business out of your unit? This sidesteps any  "animals/support animals" issues and makes it a lot easier for you to deal...commercial issues have far fewer protections than strictly residential tenants.

    Your biggest leverage on this is likely to be reporting them for operating without a license or some other action against their business. 

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  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    @Ke Nan Wang who controls the account with the security deposit (SD)?

    If it's you, what's the penalty if you just charge damages against the SD and liquidate it to your operating account?

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