Why would a renter *want* to be evicted rather than give up possesion?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
12yFollow

Why would a renter *want* to be evicted rather than give up possesion?

Paul J.
Investor · Los Osos, CA · Member since 2013 · 78 posts · 25 votes

I'm a new investor. I have a duplex and I have some inherited tenants on a month to month. I served them 30 days notice for a multitude of reasons, but of course on paper decided to go with a 30 day termination of tenancy as I thought it would be easier since I had an indication that this tenant has gamed the system previously. My attorney advised me that if I try to evict for unpaid rent and they show up with the full ammount in court, I could be foreced to take them back and I really dont want them.

Anyhow, I called a couple days later and offered her a generous credit, a kind of cash-for-keys deal.

She is adamant that she wants the thing to go to eviction court (of course, costing me hundreds and extra time). Based on her responses in my 30 minute convo with her, it almost sounds like she feels she has something to gain from being formally evicted rather than leave within the notice and take my $500 credit to her $870 she will owe by then. She told me in many ways that she thinks it shoudl go to court, even though there is nothing for them to contest on a 30-day notice to terminate a month-to-month...

Ever heard of such a thing? All I can figure is that there must be some assistance she will qualify for once she can show she is being formally evicted rather than leave...? That or she's just that bullheaded??

Thanks in advance for any experience or insight anyone might be able to share... All I can figure is that she either thinks she has some card up her sleve that I am unaware of, or she is doubling down on the idea that she will get free rent thru the eviction and never be able to be collected on after the fact.

0Reply
19 views

Most Popular Reply

Rob K.
Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y

Paul,

I think I would serve her with a seven day AND 30 day notice. Let her know that even if she pays, the 30 day termination of tenancy will still be enforced. The judge will give her ten days to pay or move on a seven day or ten days to move on a 30 day. Is it possible that this woman is just stupid or mentally challenged? Maybe she has nowhere to go and wants every day she can get.

As far as an LLC in Michigan, it depends on the court whether you need a lawyer or not. In this case, probably a good idea to have one. You don't know what kind of curve ball this woman will try and throw.

Good luck and keep us posted!

2Reply
See this reply in the discussion

20 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Account Closed
    Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    I think your lawyer is misleading you. It is your option to take the rent, or you tell the judge you want the property back. Once you get the eviction turn it over to a collection agent to collect, and they will put the eviction on her credit report. You need to play hard ball with deadbeat tenants.


    Joe Gore
    0Reply
  • Paul J.
    OP
    Investor · Los Osos, CA · Member since 2013 · 78 posts · 25 votes
    12y

    Re the attorney: Not sure, we have a new relationship and he came highly reccomended. His explanation was that in the district court I will be taking my case to, there are a couple of judges who are sympathetic to he tenants rights. The tenant does have children, and in the event I attempt to evict simply for a non-pay and they are suddenly able to pay, I could be stuck with them and starting the process all over again. I'm new to all of this so not really qualified to be second guessing any of it. The state is Michigan. I do appreciate the feedback!

    Also, no doubt if they decide they are going to forgo my generous offer in the name of going to court, I will definately pursue judgement and collection. It's only fair to the next person who checks her references and I at least have some chance of recouping some of the cost.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    In my one of my farms, tenants need formal eviction papers in order to qualify for a $1000 assistance grant from the county. For reals. Learned that from my eviction lady, who has seen it all. I couldn't figure out why the tenants wouldn't take my cash for keys offer. They need it to get as far as a scheduled sheriff lock-out. Which is minimum 6-8 weeks of rent-free living and then they can take their lockout notice to the county to get an assistance payment. Our governments at work to prevent homelessness......one sucker landlord at a time. :)

    If drugs are talking and/or the property is being used as a home base for selling or other illegal activities? You'll get strung along by the tenants for as long as possible. They need as much time as they can get. The eviction process usually takes time and is in the tenant's favor.....it's rent free living. It's mondo difficult to for people to move their illegal profit centers to a new rental. Especially if they have no license and no credit cards. Ask me how I know.
    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Paul J.:
    Re the attorney: Not sure, we have a new relationship and he came highly reccomended. His explanation was that in the district court I will be taking my case to, there are a couple of judges who are sympathetic to he tenants rights. The tenant does have children, and in the event I attempt to evict simply for a non-pay and they are suddenly able to pay, I could be stuck with them and starting the process all over again. I'm new to all of this so not really qualified to be second guessing any of it. The state is Michigan. I do appreciate the feedback!

    Also, no doubt if they decide they are going to forgo my generous offer in the name of going to court, I will definately pursue judgement and collection. It's only fair to the next person who checks her references and I at least have some chance of recouping some of the cost.

    Paul: have you considered covering all bases by serving both the pay or quit and a termination of tenancy? Assuming your lease is month to month and that you don't want them as tenants regardless of payment, why not make sure that they are on their way out?

    0Reply
  • Paul J.
    OP
    Investor · Los Osos, CA · Member since 2013 · 78 posts · 25 votes
    12y

    Oh my. Thanks for the detailed insight...

    I did consider the double-notice after our convo on cash-for-keys. I am a new investor and am not totally flush with cash to burn (is anyone?). I can afford an eviction, I can afford all the rehab that needs to be done, after the eviction, I can afford the vacancy and use of utilities in the meanwhile... I was just concerned about turning my one eviction into a double if I get forced to keep them after the first hearing, which would leave me without the cushion that I feel safe with. Maybe I should send them the 7 day and bring this up to my attorney to get the ball rolling a little faster if need be...

    I hold the property in an LLC and in Michigan, I must be represented by an attorney in any eviction hearing which I assume would double all costs involved if I get told to keep the problem people in the initial non-pay hearing...?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Paul: I see now that you did serve a termination notice, so you're good to go on your eviction (if necessary). You always have the right to terminate regardless of whether or not your tenants are good payors (and assuming you are not under any rent-control laws). Your tenants may or may not answer the eviction hearing. Not for you to worry about. I suggest no more 30 minute conversations with tenants either. Since you weren't working out the details of how to bring the tenant current, you run the risk of ........just getting worked.
    0Reply
  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    This is my take. You are dealing with a pro tenant. They know the law and how long they will be able to stay rent free. They know what it costs to rent for the time they will live rent free. They also know what it will do to their drug dealing business.

    Personally, I don't think your offer is all that generous. Think of it this way they still owe you money they have no intention of ever paying and will have to go through the brain damage of finding a new place. I think the attitude you got was "What are doing offering me chump change don't you know what this is going to cost you?"

    2 ideas. Ask her how much it would take for her to be gone by Monday noon or even Nov 1. Figure out how much the eviction attorney will cost you as well as all the other fees and lost rent. That is your max figure for cash for keys.

    Also when you do make her a real offer (your last best price) let her know there will be no other offers, it's off to court do not pass go do not collect nothing if the don't take your best offer.

    I'm sure you know this but no keys=no cash. Nothing up front. You might want to rent a storage unit for them. They rent it and you give the storage guy the money for the rent.

    0Reply
  • Rob K.
    Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Paul,

    I think I would serve her with a seven day AND 30 day notice. Let her know that even if she pays, the 30 day termination of tenancy will still be enforced. The judge will give her ten days to pay or move on a seven day or ten days to move on a 30 day. Is it possible that this woman is just stupid or mentally challenged? Maybe she has nowhere to go and wants every day she can get.

    As far as an LLC in Michigan, it depends on the court whether you need a lawyer or not. In this case, probably a good idea to have one. You don't know what kind of curve ball this woman will try and throw.

    Good luck and keep us posted!

    2Reply
  • Paul J.
    OP
    Investor · Los Osos, CA · Member since 2013 · 78 posts · 25 votes
    12y

    Rob - Thanks for the advice about the attorney. I will have to look into that as far as my district court is concerned.

    Also, I have taken the advice offered here, slept on it, and served my tenants a 7-day and updated the lawyer. It is clear to me that any person with intentions of paying would have jumped on my offer, and anyone with intentions of gaming would have responded as she did. Assuming the eviction for non-pay goes well, I should be able to take possession about 3 weeks earlier than otherwise, perhaps more considering the holidays...

    Thanks again everyone, I'll be sure to post a follow up as we progress.

    0Reply
  • Robert Brubaker
    Involved In Real Estate · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2008 · 104 posts · 17 votes
    12y

    Paul Practically speaking , if you want these people out

    develope a strategy that gets them out!

    Eviction for anything other than non-payment of rent

    is much more complicated and leaves room for

    all kinds of "defenses" and wide room for the Court's

    descretion! Keep it simple! Use your strong suit!

    In most jurisdictions There is usually littlte or No defense

    against a showing of the Non-payment of Rent Due!

    There are usually a multitude of Defenses that can be

    raised for anthing else! Any Complaint needs to be

    free of any other Issues! Have your attorney look

    over notices and anything to be filed with the court!

    Best for Success!

    Bob Brubaker

    0Reply
  • Mike Franco
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 555 posts · 261 votes
    12y

    Someone help me understand.

    After they get an eviction on their record, they can get government assistance, but no other decent landlord will ever rent to them again.

    Is government assistance that good that it would transform someone into a perma deadbeat?

    0Reply
  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    Some aid organizations require eviction notice in order to give out funds. Some tenants aren't on government assistance so it doesn't matter.

    Also know that having an eviction doesn't mean that people won't rent to you. Many, many, LL don't check. They just look at the ap and go by gut.

    0Reply
  • Paul J.
    OP
    Investor · Los Osos, CA · Member since 2013 · 78 posts · 25 votes
    12y

    I'm trying to figure it out too. I can only assume that there is likely a local aid agency that provides assistance to low-income folks who can prove they are being evicted, as William said. When I talked to her about cutting her a break, her response was that 'that's all fine and we'll probably be out before the date you gave us, however I think it should be official and go to court'. I told her it was plenty official with the notice I gave, but she insisted 2 or 3 different times that she intended to have it go all the way to an eviction hearing and she mentioned that she knew she would have another 10 days after an eviction order came down... Anyhow, the new 7-day notice will arrive today per the post office tracking and we will see what happens.

    0Reply
  • Pat L.
    Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Mike Franco:
    Someone help me understand.

    After they get an eviction on their record, they can get government assistance, but no other decent landlord will ever rent to them again.

    Is government assistance that good that it would transform someone into a perma deadbeat?

    We had a young tenant caught working while on WC & he subsequently lost his comp check (but he kept working off the books).

    He was quickly evicted by our PM for arrears. So he went to Canada got his 13 yr old daughter (who lives with the divorced mother) & went to Social Services crying the single parent blues. They immediately got him & the daughter an apt & some form of monthly 'welfare' payments. The daughter went back to Canada (& school). He gets picked up 2-3 times a week to do community work to stay qualified & yet continues to work nights off the books.

    This form of 'underground' subsistence is more prevalent than we realize & I am convinced there is a 'play book' out there somewhere that these 'parasites' subscribe to.

    0Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    12y

    It's a pro-tenant just by what you have said.

    I don't think you gain anything from talking to them anymore and they can tell you are new blood.

    Let the system work to get them out. No legal advice

    Podcast Guest on Show #47
    NNN Invest53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Aly W.
    Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    We had a tenant who lost her temporary rental assistance as soon as she got a part time job. Of course it wasn't enough for her to pay the rent, so she went to Catholic Charities who said she needed proof of eviction before they would help her. So we filed an eviction against her, although she had agreed to leave if she didn't get the assistance. With eviction notice in hand, she went back to Catholic Charities, who informed her they had no additional funds for assistance.

    She did move out (we gave her back most of her security to ensure she did leave quickly) but she was extremely upset to find out the filing was part of her record should any future landlord check it - and two of them did. I had her tell them to call me and I explained the situation, but it's still on her record. Luckily she was able to rent from one of them.

    Another woman I know was told by an attorney to stay put in her apartment until evicted...because it would buy her at least 6 extra weeks of time. As @Bill S. said, most landlords don't check.

    @Paul J., in the future I would recommend you have someone post a Pay or Quit notice on the tenant's door and take a photo of it, as well as sending it by mail. Anything I've sent by mail to a tenant facing a Pay or Quit/Eviction has claimed they never got anything - certified or otherwise. When it's on their door, they pay attention.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Mike Franco:
    Someone help me understand.

    After they get an eviction on their record, they can get government assistance, but no other decent landlord will ever rent to them again.

    Is government assistance that good that it would transform someone into a perma deadbeat?

    This question made me laugh. No government assistance for housing or otherwise, is "that good". It comes with strings attached, paperwork, lack of autonomy and motivates many people to either not work or lie about the work they do get in order to keep benefits. "Benefits" like housing and healthcare and childcare. So, no it's not that good. But it's better than nothing for a lot of people, especially those that don't see opportunity everywhere they turn. 6 weeks free rent and relocation assistance is the only "windfall" some people are going to see this year. They'll take it where they can get it.

    As for being evicted preventing finding future housing: The homeless rate in the US would be epic if an eviction on record made it impossible to rent again. Same with a foreclosure on record or BK. Good thing that landlord tolerance (and lack of screening) varies.

    0Reply
  • Paul J.
    OP
    Investor · Los Osos, CA · Member since 2013 · 78 posts · 25 votes
    12y

    Hey thanks again everyone for your advice. We got court 1 week after giving the tenant 7-day notice, they did not show, and today we would have gotten the writ of eviction but the tenant moved anyhow. Not sure what her angle was, however she is now gone a solid 3 weeks earlier than she had been if I had followed my original plan. Thanks everybody for the advice, I guess my 'first rodeo' is now in the books. Time to rehab and re-lease...

    0Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    12y

    Many times they will not file a response or go to the court.

    The reason at least in my state of Georgia is the judge can only grant eviction and not any judgment unless the judge knows the party was served directly or responded.

    So many pro tenants will not reply to anything and leave right before the Marshall comes out.

    Podcast Guest on Show #47
    NNN Invest53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    congratulations for getting that settled. Hopefully they didn't leave anything behind, as a professional tenant might later claim that they were still living there. Technically you'll have to wait for the sheriff to do the lockout.

    Also, for future reference - every state is different and I don't know what Michigan is like. In Fulton county, Georgia, if you are evicting for non-payment and the tenant comes up with the funds at court, you are required to reinstate the lease for the first time. If it happens again you don't have to accept the funds.

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free