20 Years to $20K/month Passive Income

20 Years to $20K/month Passive Income

Mark S.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 540 votes
At 30 years old, I would consider myself a little bit late to the real estate investing party (although, I'm sure others might disagree). In my 20s, I have been fortunate enough to have decent full-time positions in the corporate world and to sock away a couple hundred thousand (including growth) in qualified retirement plans. Compared to the average American, this is probably an excellent start; compared to investors my age on BP nation, maybe it's average, at best. While I still plan to maximize retirement account contributions and to (at least for quite some time) stay in the corporate world, I really want to get my real estate investing off the ground. Here's my plan: I would like to have $20,000/month positive, passive cashflow by the time I'm age 50 in 20 years. I currently have zero rentals. If I break this down, I need to generate (not factoring inflation, etc.) $1,000/month positive, passive cashflow each year for the next 20 years. Most properties I've looked at in my area provide about $100-$150/month positive cashflow, at best. By these numbers, I would need to acquire 7-10 units/year, which I don't see as reasonable for me to buy personally from my W-2 income. I'm starting to think I may need to set $200-$250/month per unit as one of my minimum criteria, however, this may force me to buy out-of-state, which opens up a whole new can of (potential) worms. If I did this, though, I would only need 4-5 units/year, which seems a tad more reasonable, although (in my opinion) ambitious. Originally, my plan was to start small and buy 1-2 units/year. If I do this, I very likely won't reach my goal. My primary concern is getting started (I've made several offers, however, no luck yet); I believe getting started will help drive momentum. My secondary concern is reaching my income goal. I've calculated, based on a 10% income yield, what it would take in equity (stock) investments to produce this $12,000/year Cashflow. It's pretty simple: $120,000. To buy, say, 5 properties a year at $60,000 (let's say each spun off $200/mo for $200/mo x 5 units = $1,000/mo = $12,000/yr Cashflow). At 20% down payment, that would be $60,000 cash outlay. Clearly, there are other items (mild rehab, closing costs, etc.) that would be out of pocket, but probably not enough to make up that extra $60,000. I guess I'm sold on the real estate investment method, but just want to be sure I'm thinking about it correctly. MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU: 1.) Should I just jump in when I find a "good deal," and modify my income goals as I progress? 2.) Would you start with turnkey out of state investing if you're a new investor? 3.) Regardless of where you start, would you want all your properties in the same state r multiple states (to diversify)? 4.) What other advice would you give to someone like me? I'm planning to buy-and-hold in B/C type neighborhoods with minimal rehab and am debating whether or not I want to use property management, however, I do factor in 10% for PM in my numbers when analyzing. Thanks in advance, everyone!
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Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 476 posts · 294 votes
12y

@Mark S. 

1.) Should I just jump in when I find a "good deal," and modify my income goals as I progress?  I think your income will ramp up as you progress.  I think nailing down what you want your niche to be right now and focus only on being as good as you can at that niche is key.  As you go along and become an expert in your niche, you'll find other ways to exploit your niche and ramp up your profits thus your "passive income" acquisitions.

I should note that I don't believe managing 100 properties or how many ever it may take to meet your 20k/mo net income goal is ever considered "passive income".

2.) Would you start with turnkey out of state investing if you're a new investor? 

No, I wouldn't recommend that.  Certainly not if you wish to meet your goals.  If you're going to come up with 20k/mo income in the next two decades, you're going to need to be a little more hands on, cut out the middle man turnkey sellers and own your risk, your business, your plan.

3.) Regardless of where you start, would you want all your properties in the same state r multiple states (to diversify)?   As mentioned, I'd focus on your niche and really becoming an expert in that area before looking to expand.  Becoming an expert in your local area will open up other opportunities that won't necessarily involve you finding a new area to farm.

4.) What other advice would you give to someone like me?

Keep reading here at BP, attend your local REI meetings and find someone that is doing exactly what you want to do.  You're not the only one that wants substantial monthly cash flow...and I'd be willing to bet there are investors close to you that have already achieved this.  Check into your local REI meetings, your local property management companies, find out who the big players are.  Buy them lunch, learn from them.

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  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 540 votes
    11y

    @Pete T., no, not yet.  I've sort of fallen off the horse the last half of the year.

    @Nicole A., thanks for the tip. I did attend a local REIA a while back, but that particular group of investors wasn't for me. I need to see if I can find another REIA.

    @Scott Trench, great point. I looked back at 2014 and I calculated that I've made over $43,000 in contributions to stock market investments - maxed out 401(k), Roth IRA, taxable investments, etc. About $20,000 of this is taxable investments that I would be willing to liquidate and move into real estate.

    @Greg P., any updates on your progress?  I need some motivation!

    @Kurt K., not necessarily.  It's all about sequence of returns.

  • Investor · in, MI · Member since 2013 · 226 posts · 102 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mark S.:

    @Kurt K., not necessarily.  It's all about sequence of returns.

    Well we can go back and forth all day long because I can just as easily say that the sequence of return risk is "not necessarily" a problem. One doesn't know if it will affect them or not beforehand. However, may allocate your capital differently to mitigate this risk.

    My original comment was to the person saying in the stock market one can withdraw 4% of their portfolio for 25 years and will simply have nothing left (4% times 25 = 100%). 

    One can run simulations on withdrawal rates and asset allocations. For example, 75% of portfolio in total market index, 25% in bonds yields a 98.2% chance that after 25 years your money will not be gone withdrawing $133,600 on $3.34M.

    So yes, there is a small risk that the sequence or returns risk will bite you.

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2014 · 86 posts · 46 votes
    11y

    The buy and hold is a good long term strategy but you need to evaluate your portfolio as you build it. You could accumulate 10 rentals with lots of equity and sell or 1031 exchange into one property that gives you the same or better cash flow. Or sell the marginal properties and keep the good ones. Another thing is sometimes the market goes haywire (2003-2005) and you can cash out for a price you never dreamed of. All cash is not a bad position to be in. You can lend your money to other investors at above market rates and generate nice cash flow with minimal work. 

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 540 votes
    11y
    Thanks, Kevin Page . I see your point, although I'm very hesitant to have a large cash position. Heck, every time I see my checking account exceed a certain figure, I immediately find another home for the excess. I think this is part of my problem with having sufficient cash on hand for real estate. I mean, in addition to the purchase, I'll still need to have money in reserves.
  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2014 · 86 posts · 46 votes
    11y

    @Mark S.I know of many investors/brokers, myself included that were buying properties because interest rates were so low. Why keep it in a bank when we can buy an appreciating asset? Now those assets have lost value and we have to hold them till prices come back to get our money out. Prices go up, prices go down over a period of time. You can buy a property, hold it till prices go up, sell it and then buy it again when prices go down. If I had liquidated more of my holdings, I could have bought them back today for 50% or less of what I paid. Buying at today's prices is probably safe but when they start to go up

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2014 · 86 posts · 46 votes
    11y

    @Mark S. Sorry hit the send by mistake. Buying at today's prices is probably safe but when they start to go up I would think twice about taking money off the table. Another thing is you want to be buying when everyone is selling and selling when everyone is buying. 

  • Investor · Andover, MA · Member since 2015 · 269 posts · 67 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Pete T.:

    @Mark S. dont just look at the numbers- bad areas bring a lot of hidden costs with them.

     I could not agree more with Pete... Know your areas and know your risks is critical for success...

    Flavio

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 540 votes
    11y

    Thanks, @Flavio Zanetti 

  • Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes
    11y

    I'll be closing a $345k 12 unit tomorrow and that will put me at just under $10k a month in total principal and interest payments on my 42 units.

    I'll continue to build my portfolio, but that's a decent number to think about as far as a monthly income when they're all paid off in 20-25 years. I'm 37 and can definitely see myself having a $250k a year "draw" from my business in my late 50's if not sooner!

    (I'll consolidate my smaller properties at some point into more passive NNN commercial or bigger apartment complexes with management so I can enjoy the income.)

  • Herndon, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 324 votes
    11y

    I would focus on good areas and be a little flexible on the 1% rule if necessary.  I definitely wouldn't try to hold out for 2%, because that will likely have risks/headaches that lower yield investments should not have.  Since this property will likely have a long holding period, principal pay down and appreciation(rental and price) should be factored into this investment.

    Once you probably will have to include Multi-Family properties to reach your goal, but I would start small.

  • Real Estate Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 785 posts · 190 votes
    11y

    My partner did this in 6 years with 25-50k houses distressed, owner financed. I am following the same model. 

  • Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    My partner did this in 6 years with 25-50k houses distressed, owner financed. I am following the same model. 

    You're saying he has $240,000 annual net operating income off of 20-25 houses?

  • Hoffman Estates, IL · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    I would recommend you start small (Less than 150k). If you are in buy-nd-hold, make sure you have funds portioned for property taxes, maintaining and 1-2 months mortgage payment in case it takes a while to find the right tenant. If you r buying condo's/townhomes, add the association fees too. Find if u can get properties which comes with tenants too. Also, if you're handy, that will save some money. 

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