What Does "Vulture Investing" Mean To You?

What Does "Vulture Investing" Mean To You?

Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

We put out some ads recently with the term "vulture investing" in them and some people have darn-near blown a gasket responding to the ad. What does this mean to you? Does it have a negative connotation?

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SFR Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y

Birds are often used to describe certain human traits. Therefore:

Vulture Investor - Picks at the carcasses of distressed homeowners

Turkey Investor - Promises to buy your house, then never does

Seagull Investor - Makes a lot of noise and never shuts up

Parrot Investor - Repeats everything he hears

Pelican Investor - Sits on a home without selling for years, and years, and years...

Crow Investor - Keeps talking about the deal he did back in 2008 and nothing else

Pigeon Investor - Sets up a lease-option to sell his property for 20% above current market value, only to have the buyer exercise the option when the property is worth 40% above the original value

Chicken Investor - Still hasn't purchased a property, but has spent over $30,000 on books, tapes, seminars, coaching, etc.

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  • Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    This is a new term to me. Sounds like a name that the media might come up with to describe investors. I can imagine some feel that investors lurk in the dark looking for innocent prey they can devour.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y

    Agreed with Charles...if I didn't know any better, I'd associate a negative connotation with the term...

  • Real Estate Investor · Carrollton, TX · Member since 2009 · 13 posts · 0 votes
    15y

    negative to me, but sounds like it gets callers. Maybe just good marketing.

  • Real Estate Investor · Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 105 posts · 71 votes
    15y

    I have been called lots of things including a Vulture Investor and that is okay with me. As for spending money on an advertisement you might be better served with Distressed Investments. Or if you really want to be PC you can try Value Add Investments

    In the end all the above means the same to me but given the large audience we can be a little sensitive

  • Lender · Fort Pierce, FL · Member since 2009 · 825 posts · 486 votes
    15y

    Definately negative.

    Vulture Capitalists are often accused of investing in companies with the end goal of taking over the company (via forced bankruptcy if necessary) and expelling the founders.

    I had a prospect looking for funding and used that term on her website (as in she was fending off the vultures) and I strongly urged her to removed it as any new investors may find it offensive.

    My $0.02

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    15y

    I agree that it seems offensive. However, when I was very young, a friend bought me a tie tack in the form of a shark. I wore it proudly.... Rich

  • Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    when i hear vulture investors, i think of greedy lowballin SOB investors taking advantage of people--not saying that's the case in actuality, but that's the perception people will get, which is more important sometimes

  • Sean H.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2010 · 224 posts · 75 votes
    15y

    I agree with the previous statements. When I hear the term "vulture investors" I think of a knowledgeable investor looking to prey on a weakened or less knowledgeable person, in a devious or sneaky way. Definitely negative connotations, but may be get people talking.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    To clarify....we aren't paying for the ads. It is an email series circulating to our collective list of 40,000+ people.

    We have had two negative emails back so far.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Vulture investing, good name for the rent-to-buy strategies. Just wondering, is the vulture the state bird of any red state? Missouri is the blue bird.

  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2011 · 103 posts · 22 votes
    15y

    Whenever someone calls you a vulture, just ask them when they've seen the vulture being the one dying in the desert. That should be enough to quiet the skeptics.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    We're calling ourselves vultures Max.

    I don't really give a f what people think. I just thought it was interesting and wanted to see what others thought.

  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2011 · 35 posts · 3 votes
    15y

    The word Vulture alone gives people the image of a carnivorous flesh eating bird.

  • Real Estate Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2008 · 28 posts · 7 votes
    15y

    Hi Bryan. Any chance you'd share the email so we can understand the context?

    Personally, if I got an email touting someone's vulture investor philosophy, I'd get myself of ftheir email list and put the sender on my "do not do business with" list. But hey, there's an audience who really digs it. Reminds me of guy selling a system for finding private lenders who crowed about stealing them from his fellow local investors. "That's right - I STEAL 'EM!" Not cool. Getting over on somebody else to get mine is a trait I avoid in my circle. Nobody dies in my desert - we hang out in rocking chairs sippin' cold sweet tea in the shade.

    To me it implies taking advantage of Joe the Plumber's lack of investing sophistication, say, a Sub2 where Joe wasn't informed how he could take a hit if things go wrong. "Vultures" are the same guys who look Joe in the face and say, whoa dude, we're all adults here, buyer beware. And then sleep like a baby.

  • Real Estate Investor · Chester County, PA · Member since 2011 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    15y

    I think I like your tag line of being an "opportunistic buyer" a little better. . . but in reality a vulture is only cleaning up what is essentially an eye-sore on the side of the road! - they do serve a purpose.

  • SFR Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Birds are often used to describe certain human traits. Therefore:

    Vulture Investor - Picks at the carcasses of distressed homeowners

    Turkey Investor - Promises to buy your house, then never does

    Seagull Investor - Makes a lot of noise and never shuts up

    Parrot Investor - Repeats everything he hears

    Pelican Investor - Sits on a home without selling for years, and years, and years...

    Crow Investor - Keeps talking about the deal he did back in 2008 and nothing else

    Pigeon Investor - Sets up a lease-option to sell his property for 20% above current market value, only to have the buyer exercise the option when the property is worth 40% above the original value

    Chicken Investor - Still hasn't purchased a property, but has spent over $30,000 on books, tapes, seminars, coaching, etc.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    I vote Mitch's post as post of the month!

  • Rehabber · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2011 · 14 posts · 1 vote
    15y

    i agree it is definitely a negative connotation!

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by calgal:
    Hi Bryan. Any chance you'd share the email so we can understand the context?

    Headline: Bullseye Capital Fund presents
    The Vulture Investing Series
    Self-Directing your IRA

    Text:
    Hi

    Bullseye Capital Fund’s Vulture Investing Series of webinars will educate you on how clever investors are taking advantage of the distressed commercial real estate market brought on by the current economic climate. Experienced Vulture Investors obtain significant bargains by taking advantage of owner distress using investor capital to move quickly to close these deals. Real estate is still "America's most tax-favored asset class.â€

    We are hosting an educational webinar titled Self-directing your IRA on June 7, 2011. On this webinar we will discuss Vulture Investing and the ins and outs of investing in real estate using your retirement accounts (IRA). A self-directed IRA is a unique hybrid tool that uses a self-directed IRA custodian and a specialized legal structure. Take control of your investing and financial future using a self-directed IRA. Investments made with a self-directed IRA may grow untaxed provided the income generated is passive income.

    Click the Register Now button below to register for the webinar.

    The number of seats available is limited so register early to avoid missing out.

    Joel G. Block
    Founding Principal and CEO

    About Us

    We are focused on rapidly buying, fixing, and reselling real estate purchaes to maximize the profits potentials that are shared with our partner investors.

    If you would like to submit a property to the Fund for review, click this button

    There are pictures of the presenters at the top too along with buttons, banners, etc....but that is the main text.

  • Real Estate Investor · Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 105 posts · 71 votes
    15y

    Might just be me but in this context I like it. But again I have been called a Vulture Investor before and I am okay with that.

    Nice work as always, quick and clean

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    I brought this topic up on our BOD call this evening and we are going to try mixing it up a bit to see if something else "non-vulture" pulls better.

    Our thought is to position the headline as more of us versus the nasty banks instead to see if that may get a better open rate and ultimately drive better attendance.

    Any suggestions on copy for this are appreciated. Something like, "Take Your Stimulus Money Back From The Lenders By Investing With Your IRA" or some such is what I thought of first.

    Ideas?

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 380 votes
    15y

    I remember when Kondaur Capital first rose to prominence, reading an interview with one of its founders about the homonym (technically, homograph) with which the company shares its name- Condor. The latter of course, being a bird of prey, similar to the "vulture" effect here.

    While Jon Daurio played to the crowd and said that no, it was just an amalgamation of his last name and that of his co-founder John Kontoulis, it was clear as day to me that this was in fact their slightly subtle way of defining their corporate culture. One need not know more than a few AM's there to verify this.

    So what I'm saying Bryan is that you and your BOD may want to keep the "vulture investing" philosophy branding, just be a bit more subtle and clever about it.

  • Real Estate Investor · Somerdale, NJ · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 30 votes
    14y

    At the end of the day, Brian, if it's getting you a good open rate and a better attendance rate for your webinars, then roll with it.

    But, if it isn't, then change it LOL!

    As for my thoughts on the term vulture, well...

    Vultures seldom attack healthy animals, but may kill the wounded or sick. When a carcass has too thick a hide for its beak to open, it waits for a larger scavenger to eat first. Vast numbers have been seen upon battlefields.

    This is taken from the wikipedia entry, and pretty much sums up how I feel about vultures-they're not regal birds, they're bottom feeders. So I don't think I'd associate myself with being a bottom feeder.

    Just my thoughts.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    We eventually changed the name because our country is filled with a bunch of whiners that are delicate little flowers and we got sick of hearing the pissing and moaning.

    We have had some excellent calls lately and tonight's EB-5 call was our highest attended call yet. I am planning to have an actual webinar on solo Ks because one of our fund's principals if a pension plan expert and another principal is starting a solo K company. We are going to start working on slide decks in the coming weeks and should have something ready to go in a month or two.

  • Real Estate Investor · Somerdale, NJ · Member since 2008 · 42 posts · 30 votes
    14y

    Wow, ok

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