Possible to sue negligent owner of criminal-infested property?

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Possible to sue negligent owner of criminal-infested property?

John Sharpe
Crestline, CA · Member since 2018 · 63 posts · 70 votes

The house next door is owned by elderly couple (in a living trust) who live a couple hours away and bought the very nice house several years ago for their brain-fried and/or druggie divorced adult son to have a place to live.

It's literally a drug house, well documented legally, and infamous in our community. The druggie son seems to lock himself in one room (he's rarely lucid) and a bunch of drug-dealing criminals have pretty much taken over the large house, with or without the son's permission. The other neighbors and myself work very closely with the exasperated law enforcement, but there's not a lot they can do (not trying to make this post about CA's lax drug laws, squatters' rights etc).

I've been in contact with the elderly owners several times and made it clear that their property is a huge problem for our neighborhood and local law enforcement. They have almost no contact with their son living in the house but are aware of all the problems.  However they don't do anything at all, and aren't even able or willing to travel to the property to see it. The amount of liability they're taking on by allowing this criminal flop house to continue seems astounding to me, but maybe they feel protected since the house is owned by a living trust.

With this really being unbearable, the drug trafficking at all hours, and the house looks terrible in our neighborhood of nice homes, so the other neighbors and I are wondering if we can sue the owners?

The intent here is not to get money from the elderly owners, but to maybe prod them into selling the house or taking some minimal amount of care for it. Does anyone know about lawsuits against negligent owners of crime-infested properties in CA? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

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Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
5y

so i hate to be the downer here, but honestly its NOYB and an atty is probably going to tell you you have no standing to sue.....  you are basically complaining that your property values are declining....    you clearly have no concern for the people involved, just your homes value......  I can see why the police dont do much.    If it is such a problem you have a couple choices: sell and go elsewhere....  or talk to the parents which will probably get you nowhere. IMO you cant change the world to suit your likes and dislikes in general so maybe moving might be a good idea? 

And, I dont mean any of the above in a "mean" way - just as someone who has dealt with similar - i sold my home and moved.....  solved my problem perfectly and I didnt have to rely on anyone else. 

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  • David Jay
    Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2015 · 69 posts · 48 votes
    5y

    So if I’m understanding this correctly you live next door to a house that looks terrible. It’s inhabited by a bunch of drug addicts. So I’m thinking one of two things is happening. 
    There are a bunch of deadbeats living off the son. They drink and smoke weed and come and go at odd hours in junker cars. Hey I wouldn’t want to live next door to them either. But I get that the cops have bigger fish to fry and I doubt a lawsuit will solve it. 
    Or there are true criminals with weapons dealing meth and fentanyl with cars pulling up day and night to buy drugs. Have to believe even in California the cops would shut that sh.t down. 
    if it’s truly criminal activity you need the police. You just need to keep pushing up the chain of command. If it’s more a nuisance consult a lawyer. They can probably provide better advice then a random forum post. 

    1Reply
  • John Sharpe
    OP
    Crestline, CA · Member since 2018 · 63 posts · 70 votes
    5y

    Correct, the law enforcement are very involved but this has been going on for quite a while, mostly with a rotating cast of characters (the son being the only constant as far as I can tell).  My next hope is to get the owners to do something, and as they've been ignoring the problem this whole time we (the neighbors) are hoping a lawsuit threat would prod them to sell the property or somehow take care of it.  My question is if we can initiate a lawsuit because of their gross negligence which is harming our neighborhood?  

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Sharpe:

    Correct, the law enforcement are very involved but this has been going on for quite a while, mostly with a rotating cast of characters (the son being the only constant as far as I can tell).  My next hope is to get the owners to do something, and as they've been ignoring the problem this whole time we (the neighbors) are hoping a lawsuit threat would prod them to sell the property or somehow take care of it.  My question is if we can initiate a lawsuit because of their gross negligence which is harming our neighborhood?  

    Since law doesn't matter in CA, I'm really at a loss as to what to suggest.

    2Reply
  • Stephen Chatto
    Rental Property Investor · Yardley, PA · Member since 2012 · 436 posts · 198 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Sharpe:

    Correct, the law enforcement are very involved but this has been going on for quite a while, mostly with a rotating cast of characters (the son being the only constant as far as I can tell).  My next hope is to get the owners to do something, and as they've been ignoring the problem this whole time we (the neighbors) are hoping a lawsuit threat would prod them to sell the property or somehow take care of it.  My question is if we can initiate a lawsuit because of their gross negligence which is harming our neighborhood?  

    Not sure how much it would cost, but can you hire police to park out front?  Like they hire them to watch construction etc?  Maybe the Neighbors can get together and help towards the cost.

    Criminals love the to be in the dark.  Do you have camera's on them recording everything going on there.   Not sure the set up or if that is possible.  

    Does it effect enough people on the street that they could get on social media and bring the issue to light.   If they get enough pushback that might get the police more into action.  

    Have you talked to the township?  Are there ordinances that they are breaking that they could site the owners for?  Code Violations?  Un Authorized Occupants?  Etc.  

    That's a tough one.   Good Luck. 

    1Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    ouch. you probably tried this but many towns have a problem properties list...and maybe code inspectors can be called on to thoroughly investigate the property again and again and again...those things are usually complaint driven. If crestline has elected officials/district councilors or something like that talk with them directly and see if they can convene police, fire, inspectors? grasping at some straws here...

    1Reply
  • Wayne Brooks
    Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    @John Sharpe As far as suing them and actually prevailing.....not a chance in hell.  Possibly suing them as a way to scare them or prod them into some action.....maybe, but unlikely since if they talk to an attorney he’ll assure them they have no liability.

    1Reply
  • Ryan Fox
    Investor · NV and CA · Member since 2016 · 375 posts · 229 votes
    5y

    @John Sharpe- This has already been suggested above, but code enforcement is probably your best bet.  Code enforcement in California has the ability to put a lien on the property if the owner fails to fix the violation(s).  Then, the lien can be used to force a sale of the property.  

    0Reply
  • John Sharpe
    OP
    Crestline, CA · Member since 2018 · 63 posts · 70 votes
    5y

    Thank you all, we as a neighborhood have tried all of the above suggestions multiple times/ways.   I think our local authorities are stretched too thinly, and whereas we just want the occupants of the house "gone" I'm guessing the authorities don't want them scattered like we do.  Very frustrating.  

    @Wayne Brooks That's the focus of my question. A threatened lawsuit wouldn't need to succeed, but to prod them might be useful.  I should add there's been at least one OD death in the house and I'm pretty sure the owners are paying the expenses like utilities and probably even code enforcement citations so it seem to me they're exposed to liability.  

    0Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    Seems like the Parents have solved their [3] problems:

    [1] Parked their excess cash in an appreciating asset in a good neighborhood that will keep up with inflation--(and given you the problem).

    [2,3] Removed the problem family member from their residence--and kept him from homelessness.

    I've seen this play out a couple of times. The wealthier the parents the better the neighborhood they choose.

    If Irresponsible JR. was not in the house--(sitting in jail, court ordered re-hab, etc...) they would probably NOT rent the house.

    Because it solves problem number [2] for them.

    Have you spoken with the Father and Mother regarding setting some rules for the place (???)

    Just my 2 cents.

    0Reply
  • John Sharpe
    OP
    Crestline, CA · Member since 2018 · 63 posts · 70 votes
    5y

    @Scott Mac  You're exactly right and as the parents seem to be logical people, that's why the neighborhood is pivoting to try to put more pressure on them to help.  Several of us have had conversations with the absent parents by phone or email, mostly urging them to help fix things (like put the house under care of a property manager) or even sell the property outright.  I've sent them photos of the property recently so they can see how terrible it looks so their asset is going to need some major repairs.  The parents' responses are usually about how they're not medically able to visit the property (and don't communicate with the son) and something ambiguous to buy more time like, "we'll think about what we can do."  Very frustrating.  That's why I'm thinking a lawsuit from the neighborhood might push some meaningful response.  No one likes the prospect of losing money or even just having to consult a lawyer.  We don't appreciate that they've cast their problems on our neighborhood from afar.  

    1Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    so i hate to be the downer here, but honestly its NOYB and an atty is probably going to tell you you have no standing to sue.....  you are basically complaining that your property values are declining....    you clearly have no concern for the people involved, just your homes value......  I can see why the police dont do much.    If it is such a problem you have a couple choices: sell and go elsewhere....  or talk to the parents which will probably get you nowhere. IMO you cant change the world to suit your likes and dislikes in general so maybe moving might be a good idea? 

    And, I dont mean any of the above in a "mean" way - just as someone who has dealt with similar - i sold my home and moved.....  solved my problem perfectly and I didnt have to rely on anyone else. 

    3Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    I actually have a positive suggestion: maybe talk to parents and ask them if it would be ok if your group paid for landscaping services to keep it looking half way decent......  that would be an inexpensive way to maybe make a small dent.

    2Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    I actually have a positive suggestion: maybe talk to parents and ask them if it would be ok if your group paid for landscaping services to keep it looking half way decent......  that would be an inexpensive way to maybe make a small dent.

     Post of the Day!

    1Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    @John Sharpe sorry you’re dealing with this. What would you be suing for? I know it feels like you’ve been harmed but do you really have any quantifiable damages to sue them over? Maybe you could find a lawyer to send a letter basically threatening to sue, which would test out your theory that a potential suit will light the fire under the owners bottoms, but as far as actually suing, I don’t think you’d have a case. Have you offered to buy the property? I’d recommend either buying the property (and removing the riffraff obviously), waiting things out, or moving.

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    Talk to the neighbors and find out how much they're willing to pay to get rid of the problem at hand. After you take up the collection, go to the liquor store and order up just as many cases of Everclear as you can afford. When the high-test liquor comes, load it all on a U-Haul and stack it all on the front porch. Ring the bell and walk away.

    This is maybe a $2K/20-case problem, with Everclear maybe running at $100 per four-bottle case.

    It's not illegal to give an adult a gift.

    1Reply
  • John Sharpe
    OP
    Crestline, CA · Member since 2018 · 63 posts · 70 votes
    5y

    I think I should clarify: @Mary M. I like the landscape idea but it's not the aesthetics we're most worried about.  In the past 2 weeks alone my good neighbors and I have witnessed hand-to-hand drug transactions right on the curb while looking out the window in the middle of the day, prowling creepy trespassers hiding out underneath our decks and on our porches in the middle of the night, a huge amount of vehicle traffic visiting the property all night and even a parked car on the street with two adults in it coming down from very hard drugs (authorities were called promptly).  Going back further we know there was at least one OD death in the house last year.  It's very dangerous, period.  It would be totally unethical for my good neighbors and I to pretend we don't see it and do nothing. 
    And that brings me to @Steve K.  my real question, what would I be suing for?  I don't know as there isn't a quantifiable loss for me... creating a dangerous situation?  My own lack of sleep and anxiety?  I was looking for some guidance if that's even a real thing a lawyer would put in a letter.  

    0Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    ok, now you are changing the story....  first it was loss of value of your property.  Unless you are going to hire security guards or off duty cops, or try to scare them off yourself, all you can do is call the cops. take video of drug deals, post them online, put movement activated lights and cameras outside to capture what is going on - put them online. If it is that bad it seems that the cops would be very interested.   Make what they are doing a hazard for them....  capture vehicle license plate numbers and be sure to post that online....  not on nextdoor but on facebook and tag every local offical....

    0Reply
  • John Sharpe
    OP
    Crestline, CA · Member since 2018 · 63 posts · 70 votes
    5y

    @Mary M.  Thank you Mary, I see we're on the same page and I appreciate the tips.  My list of vehicle license plates is getting quite long and I e-mail an update every couple days to the authorities, which they seem to appreciate.  

    0Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    Crappy situation and again, sorry you're dealing with this. I'm not a lawyer and thankfully haven't been involved in enough lawsuits to have much firsthand knowledge about how they work. But from my layman's perspective I don't see how suing the owners is the answer here. I've had several people OD in one of my buildings, sadly, and never even thought about being held liable for that. I know that in order for a property owner to be proven negligent for something, you'd have to prove they knew about a problem and failed to act when they should have. Perhaps send them a certified letter describing the problem and asking them to take action as a first step, just to have a written record that they know? I'd be curious to hear what a lawyer has to say. In general I think it's hard to win a suit without being harmed financially in a way that can be proven and quantified. I personally think a lawsuit here would just add another layer of complication to the problem though, honestly. It seems like the owners have enough issues with their son and their property, I wouldn't personally try to sue them and add to their troubles if I were you. I'd probably just continue reporting things to the police and the owners. With enough complaints, maybe one of them will take more action. It seems like this situation will work itself out on it's own sooner or later. Good luck! 

    1Reply
  • John Sharpe
    OP
    Crestline, CA · Member since 2018 · 63 posts · 70 votes
    4y

    As an update for those following or finding this post later, the elderly parents who own the property made a trip to visit the house and check on their son.  I met them and now I see they're very concerned but their age and health are indeed making it very difficult to have any control of the situation and they're being taken advantage of enormously.  

    A sheriff's deputy came with them to the house but the son blocked the parents from opening any locked doors etc and the deputy agreed with the son that he and the squatting drug dealers are protected like tenants.  In short the drug-dealing squatters have lots of rights, the property owners have few, and the son is protecting the squatters probably because he doesn't want to get cut off from his drug supply.  The elderly owners can't do much.  Very disappointing.  

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