SDIRAs and Partnering with Self or Others?

Question

Hello,
I have a BUNCH of questions about SDIRAs! I will put them under a couple different titles to keep things easier and clearer within the threads.

I have acquired the right to but a great older immaculately maintained duplex only a few minutes from my house. I am leaning heavily towards purchasing it within a SDIRA that I am going to be setting up this week. My other thoughts are to finance it conventionally outside the SDIRA, or possibly doing it on a land contract (the owners are thinking that over right now).

Questions are;

1) With these thoughts in mind, what are all of your thoughts on 'Partnering' on this (and likely other future projects) with either *myself* (outside of the SDIRA) say 50% SDIRA and 50% personal funds, or other people? IF with others, and done from the start, can those others be 'disqualified' persons such as father or child? I have read conflicting things about 'partnering with yourself' and am looking for some clarification on this.

2)If purchased solely with my SDIRA funds, can I sell a % interest (say 50%) to a non disqualified person in the future? I am assume IF that can happen, those funds would return to my SDIRA to be used on future purchases.

Thanks,

Dan Dietz

Daniel Dietz · Answer

Steven,

Are you saying that I can not even do a 'personal guarantee' on the NON IRA 'share' (75% in this case) since it would be on the 'same asset' (property) that the IRA also owns a share of (25%)?

If that is correct, I assume that a 'non disqualified' party could either give me a 'non-recourse' personal loan on that 75% share, or join as a 'partner' for the 75% share and do any kind of loan they would chose since not in an IRA?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to get off on the right foot!

Thanks, Dan Dietz

Steven Hamilton II · Answer

@Daniel Dietz ,

Yes it can be 25-75.  Same would go for expenses and income. It would need to be split applicably.

Ultimately if you are giving a personal guarantee that is against the collateral of the IRA property.  The loan would HAVE to be non-recourse.

Daniel Dietz · Answer

Matt & Steven,

Thanks for the replies!

I think I am starting to comprehend it all a bit better. After talking to my normal tax man, who admittedly does not work with SDIRAs, but IS eager to have a reason to brush up on them (and he has a lot of rentals himself, outside of an IRA), he/I have a couple questions.

1) I assume that since it is alright to partner '50-50' with your own SDIRA, it would also be likely that it would be OK to do say 25% SDIRA, 75% Non-IRA (borrowed outside of the SDIRA, by me individually). Then split income and expense 25-75 etc....?

The reason is simply to more highly leverage things for a higher return.

2)Here is where the confusing part comes in for me.... for the 75% 'non-SDIRA' money that I would personally be doing, I am assuming I can NOT use the 25% SDIRA share as collateral as that would be 'self -dealing' or whatever that terms is? If so, can I, on just the portion NOT in the SDIRA, give a 'personal guarantee' for that part? I would think that would NOT be 'self dealing' since it is NOT affecting the SDIRA part in any way that I can see.

Thoughts please!

Thanks, Dan Dietz

Steven Hamilton II · Answer

@Daniel Dietz ,

Just remember if you use conventional financing you will not be able to "sell" it to the IRA.

Yes, you and your IRA can purchase it 50% each; however, ALL expenses and profits must always be split by that same percentage.

Also if acquired by the SDIRA, you can sell a portion of it to others. Yes, the profits must return to the IRA.

-Steven

Matt Devincenzo · Answer

I responded to your other thread as well, and at the bottom gave my current personal view of purchasing inside your IRA.

1) Yes it is doable to partner with yourself. You can also partner with "disqualified persons" as long as the money stays separate. By that I mean you can't loan between each other, but you can each purchase a 50% stake and all expenses and income get split 50-50. I have one like this with my Mom, the prop manager takes care of the splits and just sends payment to the IRAs.

1a) If with you individually you have to be careful because now your personal portion is subject to the same rules as the IRA. So you can't go over to fix the sink or mow the grass because of the "sweat equity" that you put into the property when that should have been an expense that was incurred.

2) I'm really not sure. There may be a way to do something like that but I would be wary of anything that could be suspected as not being an arms length transaction. It may be legal, but bring more scrutiny than you would like to your IRA and risk the whole thing being distributed.

I try to keep it clean when possible. I and/or partners buy with the split identified from the very beginning. And when we sell the entire property is sold to a 3rd party.