Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 63 posts · 10 votes
SO I am negotiations on this property. Listed for sale by the Trustee or the Estate of the owner (who passed). Now my RE agent told me that the aunt/ caretaker of the owner (who was living in the house), which is also in foreclosure, has decided she owns the property (without giving any proof) and has now hired a lawyer so apparently now it has to go to probate?
She is not on title (the Trust is), so I am confused.
1) on what grounds she can claim ownership? Unless its a lawyer feeding her hopes, but what's in it for him??!! (she hasn't given any documents substantiating her claim, and is not on title)
2) IF it goes to probate court, is it so the Judge will decide who gets the house?
3) Where does the probate "overbid in court" piece fit in? As the buyer, will it all happen at once the day the Judge decided who has claim to the property, or separately?
Would appreciate any and all input on this!!! Thx!!
If this is in CA courts, it will literally be years before any resolution.
Meanwhile, you're putting your hopes on a deal that cannot close as an insured sale nor likely to offer any chance of possession during the course of litigation or mitigation.
Unless you control all the pieces, you have little chance of putting the deal together. It may cone together at done point in the future, however not much you can do with a trustee as seller who is unable to pass title.
Wow I hope you get some good responses from this. I lack knowledge in this particular area. I would find a lawyer who specializes in this and ask what they charge per hour for consulting. You might spend 350 for the hour and not get this deal but you then have the correct knowledge for future deals.
Who is the successor beneficiary of the trust? If it is the aunt, then she is the beneficial owner. Trusts bypass probate. Even though your RE agent is telling you that the aunt/caretaker has "hired" an attorney, you don't know if the attorney has taken the case or what grounds the attorney will use to stop the sale. Maybe the attorney is seeking to stop the foreclosure. If the case goes to court, it will be a civil case, but not necessarily a probate of the property. If the aunt does not have the financial resources to pay off the lender, then the property may have to be sold to satisfy the lender.
If this is in CA courts, it will literally be years before any resolution.
Meanwhile, you're putting your hopes on a deal that cannot close as an insured sale nor likely to offer any chance of possession during the course of litigation or mitigation.
Unless you control all the pieces, you have little chance of putting the deal together. It may cone together at done point in the future, however not much you can do with a trustee as seller who is unable to pass title.
The aunt is not on title. The trust is, and I think they are doing exactly that - selling off to pay the lender.
I am still confused why a claim from another family member (who is not on title), means it goes to probate...but the other agent may have it wrong, so lets see what she finds out tomorrow.
Hey there Rick! Firstly I so appreciate ALL your responses on these topics.. THANK YOU!
OK two questions.. Why cant the Trustee of the trust pass title? The trust is the legal owner. The trustee is trying to sell it.
Need to speak to my Title rep, but also not sure why it can't be an insured sale. Is this because someone is making a claim against it? You mean if there is a lawyer involved it could cloud title even though the Deed is clear as to who owns it?
No title company is going to insure that the condition of title is free of claims when there is an active, pending litigation. It's a rather obvious existing problem for which the economics make no sense whatsoever.
This is like asking your auto insurance company to insure your car with major damage after a big accident has already occured. .
There's a dispute concerning either the validity of a trust, the terms of the trust, condition of title or implementation of the terms contained in the trust by the fiduciary (trustee or successor trustee).
Yes, the objective of the trust usually includes avoiding probate, however in CA, disputes concerning trusts operationally or title are argued in probate court.
Either way, you can cool your heels while parties duke this out at 111 N. Hill Street, Los Angeles
You are getting a very important question you need to answer; who are the beneficiaries of the Trust? Otherwise, there could be an equitable claim in title for all the care that the lady performed for the elderly person. Could attach by filing some kind of proof of claim or whatever the local rules are. Either way, if there is any dispute as to real or equitable title, that is typically handled by the Probate court. If you want in on the action, get a Probate Lawyer.
@Bhekizwe M.@Matthew Kreitzer.. sorry, but forgive me. Why does it matter who are the beneficiaries? Does this make her niece's / caretaker's claim any more or less valid?
PS everyone, no Lis Pendens filed that we know of.
Just "I am getting a lawyer" threats, and "I am the owner" at this stage. Nothing substantiated.
@Bhekizwe M.@Matthew Kreitzer.. sorry, but forgive me. Why does it matter who are the beneficiaries? Does this make her niece's / caretaker's claim any more or less valid?
PS everyone, no Lis Pendens filed that we know of.
Just "I am getting a lawyer" threats, and "I am the owner" at this stage. Nothing substantiated.
Unfortunately, I cannot give case specific legal advice since I am not licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Generally speaking; there are two types of interests a person can claim in a property; equitable and real. Real is based on some kind of written contract or deed which gives them explicit interest in a property. Equitable is when they have done something, received something, or stand to gain by proxy an interest in a property. Generally speaking, real beats equitable, but not always. For information on how that applies to your case, seek out an attorney, but the beneficiary designations are related to this distinction.
Hey Everyone, my wife and I are Vanessa's agent (buyer's) on this deal. The real issue here is that we really don't know what's going on other than the information given by the seller's agent. The only information we know 1) there is a tenant/occupant who we will have to evict and 2) she has hired an attorney claiming that the house was left to her but no one has seen any paperwork to prove it.
The seller's agent says her client is the trustee. Because of the tenant issue and the fact we could not get an interior inspection, we made a low ball offer on the property. Because of all of the uncertainty with the tenant/occupant and potential legal issues, the seller is hesitant to accept the offer. That's pretty much what's going on in a nutshell.