HELOC on Investment Property

HELOC on Investment Property

Investor · Millburn, NJ · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 15 votes

I have an investment property that currently does not have any mortgage. I would like to open a line of credit on this property but the first 1/2 dozen places I have called, have done mortgages with these banks in the past, say that they will not give a HELOC on an investment property. Any advice? Is it not possible to get a HELOC on an investment property? I was listening to a podcast from BP recently, might have been an old podcast not sure, and the strategy the investor used for investing was taking out HELOCs on his properties once the mortgage was paid off. Hard to believe that his strategy is based on something impossible.

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Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

@Risha Walden I think the desire not to have a mortgage is what's making your life harder than it needs to be here.  A better approach, IMO, is to take the long term mortgage debt and invest the capital in another asset that you can borrow against as a line of credit.  In my case, that other asset is municipal bonds from my state.  Others do it with whole life insurance.  Pretty much all the sophisticated investors I know are doing this in one form or another.  End of the day, it means I'm earning ~3.75% on any extra cash I have lying around in the bank ... plus an arbitrage, depending on the current state of interest rates and the bond market.

In short, it looks like this:

1. Take out a 30y fixed mortgage on the free-and-clear property for, say, $200k.  Assume this is at 5%.

2. Buy $200k of, say, NJ municipal bonds with an effective yield of, say, 4.8%.

3. Open an LOC against the bond portfolio. You should be able to borrow up to 80% of value, with a rate of, say, 4.5%.

4. When you need some capital, write a check from your LOC account.

Beyond the value of flexibility, you also get to write off the mortgage interest expense as a business expense, and the income from the bond portfolio is state and federal tax free.  Lots of variations on the general strategy, including using T-bills, whole life insurance, and other assets, depending on variables in your life.

End of the day, it's essentially always a missed opportunity not to take a FNMA-backed fixed rate mortgage if you can get it.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 476 posts · 294 votes
    7y

    @Aaron Smith  Yeah, I ran into a similar situation with PenFed.  It was all good until they asked that question.

    Huntington was good with me.  If you need a direct contact that you can call or e-mail, let me know, happy to provide, they were on top of things.  I only wish they did more than (1).

  • Investor · Millburn, NJ · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    Thanks so much for all the input.  Working on the heloc and all the ideas.  

  • NC · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Regarding the PENFED limit of owning no more than 3 properties - has anyone considered placing one or more of your properties in an LLC to reduce the number of properties that show up under your name in a credit check?

    I'm asking because I just got tripped up for a HELOC application with them for owning 4 properties. I'm considering this idea as a way to solve that issue.

    Any lending pros have thoughts about whether this would work? 

  • Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 151 posts · 92 votes
    7y

    @Justin R. I know this thread is old, but thanks for the creativity in financing through forward thinking.

  • Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 151 posts · 92 votes
    7y

    @Matt P. Funny enough, I have used margin lines against securities to fund purchases, I know many oppose using margin, but I love it. I don't hold it long and use it on short term basis .

  • Member since 2019 · 172 posts · 93 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Justin R.:

    @Risha Walden I think the desire not to have a mortgage is what's making your life harder than it needs to be here.  A better approach, IMO, is to take the long term mortgage debt and invest the capital in another asset that you can borrow against as a line of credit.  In my case, that other asset is municipal bonds from my state.  Others do it with whole life insurance.  Pretty much all the sophisticated investors I know are doing this in one form or another.  End of the day, it means I'm earning ~3.75% on any extra cash I have lying around in the bank ... plus an arbitrage, depending on the current state of interest rates and the bond market.

    In short, it looks like this:

    1. Take out a 30y fixed mortgage on the free-and-clear property for, say, $200k.  Assume this is at 5%.

    2. Buy $200k of, say, NJ municipal bonds with an effective yield of, say, 4.8%.

    3. Open an LOC against the bond portfolio. You should be able to borrow up to 80% of value, with a rate of, say, 4.5%.

    4. When you need some capital, write a check from your LOC account.

    Beyond the value of flexibility, you also get to write off the mortgage interest expense as a business expense, and the income from the bond portfolio is state and federal tax free.  Lots of variations on the general strategy, including using T-bills, whole life insurance, and other assets, depending on variables in your life.

    End of the day, it's essentially always a missed opportunity not to take a FNMA-backed fixed rate mortgage if you can get it.

     thanks for this great info!

    can you confirm what you mean by "Take out a 30y fixed mortgage on the free-and-clear property"?  
    Are you referring to a cash-out refi?  Im having trouble even finding refi loans on investment properties

  • Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Correct.  It shouldn't be difficult to find a lender who will cashout refi the investment property - it's done all the time (at least in high value, liquid urban markets it is).  Pretty much every mortgage broker I've ever talked with can handle it.  Or, if you want to avoid the point in fees from the broker, reach out to banks directly.  For your first one, though, I'd recommend going through a broker.

    HELOC on investment property is a different story.

  • Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 57 posts · 15 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Owen Dashner:

    As others above have mentioned, call smaller banks and talk to their commercial lending department. There are absolutely LOC's for investment properties - I do this all the time.

    What places around Omaha are there Owen?

  • Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Travis Brizendine: For an LOC in Omaha, I'd start with Frontier Bank (Cole Groteluschen), Core Bank (Rick Rolley), Pinnacle Bank and Arbor Bank. All of these work with real estate investors.

  • Owen DashnerPro Member
    Lender · Omaha, NE · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I have also used American Interstate Bank out of Elkhorn and Malvern Bank (Malvern, IA).  Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    For the San Diego investors in the conversation, check out Silvergate Bank, Torrey Pines Bank, and Bank of Southern California. Even after you find a great bank, continue to reach out to other bankers. You never know when a policy change at the bank will shut down your access to capital.

  • Real Estate Broker · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 355 posts · 195 votes
    6y

    @Eric Lindeen have you personally used these banks for HELOCs on investment properties? 

  • Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Kenneth Donaghy No. They were recommended by another investor when I asked about options. No guarantee.

  • Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Any other suggestions for investment property HELOCs in New Jersey, aside from banks already mentioned?

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    Hi - does anyone have a recent list of some lenders offering HELOCs on investment properties? I used PenFed to put a HELOC on an investment property about 1.5 years ago at 3% for the intro period of one year. I'm doing a cash out refi to consolidate now and will want to put another HELOC on this property soon.

    Any leads greatly appreciated!  Property is in CA.

  • Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 31 votes
    5y

    @Sam Miller Did you find a lender that does HELOCs on investment properties in the area?

  • Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 31 votes
    5y

    Just an update for anyone looking for HELOCs on Investment Properties:

    TD Bank is the only provider that I found that is offering them right now.  Huntingdon stopped doing them when Covid Hit. US Bank doesn't offer them. Penfed as mentioned has a 3 or 4 max.

  • Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 31 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Justin R.:

    @Risha Walden I think the desire not to have a mortgage is what's making your life harder than it needs to be here.  A better approach, IMO, is to take the long term mortgage debt and invest the capital in another asset that you can borrow against as a line of credit.  In my case, that other asset is municipal bonds from my state.  Others do it with whole life insurance.  Pretty much all the sophisticated investors I know are doing this in one form or another.  End of the day, it means I'm earning ~3.75% on any extra cash I have lying around in the bank ... plus an arbitrage, depending on the current state of interest rates and the bond market.

    In short, it looks like this:

    1. Take out a 30y fixed mortgage on the free-and-clear property for, say, $200k.  Assume this is at 5%.

    2. Buy $200k of, say, NJ municipal bonds with an effective yield of, say, 4.8%.

    3. Open an LOC against the bond portfolio. You should be able to borrow up to 80% of value, with a rate of, say, 4.5%.

    4. When you need some capital, write a check from your LOC account.

    Beyond the value of flexibility, you also get to write off the mortgage interest expense as a business expense, and the income from the bond portfolio is state and federal tax free.  Lots of variations on the general strategy, including using T-bills, whole life insurance, and other assets, depending on variables in your life.

    End of the day, it's essentially always a missed opportunity not to take a FNMA-backed fixed rate mortgage if you can get it.

    @Justin R.

    I think I'm missing something....

    If you refinance out paying 5% interest and put that money into bonds paying 4.8% aren't you automatically losing .2%? And then you're still paying 4.5% on the LOC, so essentially 4.7% total?

    I see you mention 3.75% also.

    Can you let me know what I'm missing here- thanks!

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