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![Tyrone Green's profile image](https://bpimg.biggerpockets.com/no_overlay/uploads/social_user/user_avatar/232608/1631739039-avatar-tyronevgreen.jpg?twic=v1/output=image/crop=463x463@16x0/cover=128x128&v=2)
Real Estate Attorney
Anyone know of a good RE attorney in the Seattle, Tacoma, Olympia or surrounding areas?
What questions do I need to ask to find out if the attorney and I are a good "fit?"
Thanks in advance for your help!
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I am not in that area but I personally want to know if the attorney:
1. Personally invests in real estate
2. Has experience working with creative real estate financing
3. Enjoys practicing real estate law.
If the attorney says yes to all these things and you like their personality then it might be a good match.
If not, I would keep looking.
Good Luck,
Nadine
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Yes, definitely 3 good questions to ask. I will keep those in mind.
Thanks
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great list of questions to ask Nadine! I will keep those in mind when I begin my own hunt for a real estate attorney.
I am an attorney. While I don't know much about real estate law, I can give you a few tips about hiring a lawyer. First, lawyers are as varied as salespeople or realtors, or any other profession. You have the guy at the mall chewing gum, the sleazy guy at the car lot, or some highly successful corporate salesperson. All are "salespeople". Many people don't understand that the legal profession is nothing like what you see on TV. Basically, you have the top tier attorney, who goes to a very good school and works at a large firm (anywhere from 50 to over 1000 lawyers). The client list is usually a list of fortune five hundreds. These guys charge very high rates and aren't interested usually in working on small matters. A real estate lawyer in this game would work for a Donald Trump or a real estate developer with multi million dollar deals. This is less than 5 percent of total attorneys.
The other end of the spectrum are solo practitioners who usually went to local law schools (much less demanding/competitive), they advertise in the phone book, the name of their firm is usually their own name, and they usually list a long line of things they do--criminal, bankruptcy, traffic accidents, etc. The average salary in this crowded field is about 50k per year. These people really have to hustle to just make ends meet. Some of them are experienced. Some of them very good at what they do. Many are complete hacks. If you call up one of these guys and say you are looking for a real estate attorney, they will probably tell you, sure, I can help. That's what they say to everyone to keep the business coming in the door. This makes up about half the attorneys out there.
I think the best kind of attorney for investors would be someone who is in the middle of these two extremes. either 1. as a solo runs an exclusive real estate practice. 2. Works in a midsized firm (5-50 attorneys, depending on the size of your area). These lawyers tend to be reputable, established, work for more sophisticated clients, but their fees are still reasonable. Sometimes the lawyers worked at bigger shops earlier in their career but left for a better lifestyle. So you are getting the quality of the big clients without the big price tag.
I don't think it's so important that your lawyer be an investor him/herself. In fact, that might be a bad thing. If a lawyer runs a busy, successful practice, you don't have time to be hanging bandit signs and answering calls or dealing with tenants. I would ask, what percentage of your practice focuses on real estate? If I call you, how soon can I generally expect a response? Lawyers operate on a calendar of months. So an investor expecting a quick response may think the lawyer is too slow.
Be clear about fees. Most lawyers will be able to answer your questions. But you don't want to be paying 250 bucks an hour for your lawyers education. What I mean is if you came to me and asked for a partnership agreement, I could help you. But I'd start in the library and 20 hours later, give you a good product--and you a bill for about 5 grand. Someone who has a previous client who needed a partnership agreement can pull it up, make a few changes, and give you a good product with 2 hours of work--and a bill for a few hundred bucks.
You can ask about experience, but don't just assume you are looking for a middle aged lawyer with grey hair. There are bad lawyers with bad habits, who have been repeating those habits for 30 years. And there are exceptional lawyers who are only 5-8 years out of law school. Believe it or not, some of the older guys I have worked with don't even know how to use computer programs for research. A lawyer who can't do online research is useless in today's world. But I can think of four or five reputable, expensive lawyers right now, who can't do it. You can also get a pretty good vibe about a law office by sitting in the waiting room and taking a close look at the staff. Are they overworked? In a good mood? Bored with nothing to do? Tense?
Finally, be specific about what you want the lawyer to do. Don't just hire a lawyer because "you want someone on your team". Make it clear to the lawyer that you intend to be a repeat customer when the needs arise. But when you hire a lawyer, make it for specific work. Articulate your priorities and goals. I've seen clients waste lots of money, and lawyers happy to help them do it, because they don't know what they want to do and the best way to do it.
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Why do you need an attorney? Are you having a particular problem with tenants? Are you sure you don't mean title or escrow agents? (Some states require an attorney to close, but not Washington.) Do you need it for business formation? If so, don't waste your time or money unless you have a couple of houses already or have a lot of assets to protect.
I have an idea for an attorney if you need one in Tacoma.
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@Blake Yarbrough,I am interested in learning about a business formation, but I mainly would like to know about state specific guidelines for a JV venture that I recently posted in the BP marketplace.
When you get a chance please send me the contact info of the attorney you have in mind. Thanks.
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Hi @Tyrone Green. I understand your desire for a good real estate attorney. Washington is a very tricky state to do business in and you need to cover your *** legally. I spent many a $300/hr meeting with different attorneys who I paid to interview and find out they weren't who I was looking for. That is money I'll never get back, but well worth not hiring one of these guys with their $5,000 retainer they were asking for.
I found Doug Owens through REAPS. He understands the strategies investors use, and in very familiar and up to date with real estate laws. He also works on a job by job basis, no $5K retainer needed! http://www.seattle-realestate-lawyer.com/
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@Tyrone Green, don't be afraid to ask how much the hourly fee and the legal assistant fees are up front. Do they bill by the .25 hour or by the .1 hour? Find someone who cares about people, they make the best lawyers for small business people. The guys who want the $5K retainer to do real estate deals might be good attorneys, but they are not the attorney for you.
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I listened to a presentation from John Hyre who deals with Self-Directed IRA. It was put on by Equity Trust Company. Seems to really know what he is talking about. I have never used him but when the need arises I probably will.
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Check out Luce and Associates in Fife. However, Doug Owens mentioned above might by your best bet! Being a REAPS member, he would know more than Luce & Assoc. Good luck!
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@Tyrone Green Who did you end up going with? I'm in Tacoma and am trying to find a RE lawyer who can go through purchase contracts with me (I don't want to use a realtor). Thanks!